DIY Bay Rum AS

[Dale.Whiley]

Here's an idea - I've had this DIY Bay Rum on the backburner, mainly so that I can secretly watch how @Dale.Whiley goes with his and also as my main side-project at present is doing a batch of cold process soap (just normal soap, not shaving!).

But one of the issues that came up is that to get the alcohol content high enough it can end up making the entire exercise a tad cost prohibitive - and what I specifically mean by that is for the amount of stuffing around it's not massively cheaper than commercial versions so the risk factor included (e.g a batch of cat's wizz!) makes it a bit of a second guesser.

As you've got to use rum - no getting around that - budget $30-35 for an entry level bottle. But then to get the alcohol content higher thats tricky......chemist bought rubbing alcohol is very expensive (which is ridiculous!) and the option most people end up at is using the cheapest available Vodka - again say $27-30 for 700ml.

Well here's what I believe is a good idea. Methylated Spirits. Now HEAR ME OUT.....I've confirmed through several other threads where people were wanting to use it for other medical uses that Digger's brand MS is 95% ethanol, 5% water, <0.1% denaturat (basically a non-toxic bittering agent to make it horrendous to drink). It contains nothing that should provide any issues with external use! Overseas they sometimes use methanol in theirs and this is where issues come up - but the Diggers Brand is (based on the info I've seen) totally clear of this.

MS does have a bit of a stigma around it but thats kind of unfair and largely linked to people's ignorance and linkage to folks drinking it. There's really no reason I can see why one couldn't use it as a completely acceptable substitute for alcohol in external topical application usage. Should allow people to significantly decrease the cost of such projects whilst keeping the alcohol content very high to extract maximum volatiles from the botanicals as per @razorguy 's recommendations.

I have a bottle of Diggers in my garage. It's got a bit of a pong to it. I think that is to stop people drinking it. Don't know if that would be nice sniffing metho all day. As far as I know, the higher the purety of alcohol, theless it should smell. Any thoughts?

 

[Nick the Knife]

I have a bottle of Diggers in my garage. It's got a bit of a pong to it. I think that is to stop people drinking it. Don't know if that would be nice sniffing metho all day. As far as I know, the higher the purety of alcohol, theless it should smell. Any thoughts?

Well obviously its a judgement call by yourself - AFAIK methanol was taken out of Aussie metho quite a long time back - so unless it's VERY old you're fine in that regard. That said I've no idea about any other variables that might affect it.

Whilst it is somewhat subjective I've just checked with a brand new bottle of Diggers Metho that I had in my garage and IMHO absolutely no pong/smell from it that smells like anything but pure alcohol. My bottle was only bought a few weeks back, looks exactly like this. I'd be shocked if anyone had any issues with this as like I said it smells like alcohol, nothing else.

I recall the old metho used to pong a bit and perhaps you have something pretty old? If there's any doubt I'd definitely go get a new one, for $3.40 or so it's not much of a risk and you can keep the old one for cleaning etc (apparently the methanol containing version was a lot better at cleaning etc but killed too many folks who drank it!)

 

[Dale.Whiley]

Well obviously its a judgement call by yourself - AFAIK methanol was taken out of Aussie metho quite a long time back - so unless it's VERY old you're fine in that regard. That said I've no idea about any other variables that might affect it.

Whilst it is somewhat subjective I've just checked with a brand new bottle of Diggers Metho that I had in my garage and IMHO absolutely no pong/smell from it that smells like anything but pure alcohol. My bottle was only bought a few weeks back, looks exactly like this. I'd be shocked if anyone had any issues with this as like I said it smells like alcohol, nothing else.

I recall the old metho used to pong a bit and perhaps you have something pretty old? If there's any doubt I'd definitely go get a new one, for $3.40 or so it's not much of a risk and you can keep the old one for cleaning etc (apparently the methanol containing version was a lot better at cleaning etc but killed too many folks who drank it!)

That's my bottle. Still full. That smell must be alcohol. I haven't had a drink since January '97 & my nose may not be into it. I will try some in my concoction.

 

[razorguy]

I did not know how expensive could be ethyl alcohol in Australia! Just wow!!! On this regard, I believe I am quite lucky for living in Italy as we usually pay about 14-20 euros for one liter of ethanol at 95%! A 700ml bottle of the cheapest or entry level rum or vodka sells for about 8-14 euros.
Having said this, make sure you are using ethanol or denatured alcohol and avoid methanol.

 

[Dale.Whiley]

I did not know how expensive could be ethyl alcohol in Australia! Just wow!!! On this regard, I believe I am quite lucky for living in Italy as we usually pay about 14-20 euros for one liter of ethanol at 95%! A 700ml bottle of the cheapest or entry level rum or vodka sells for about 8-14 euros.
Having said this, make sure you are using ethanol or denatured alcohol and avoid methanol.

http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Cons_Methylated_Spirits_Aug14.pdf

Diggers is Denatured so I guess it goes in tonight

 

[Dale.Whiley]

DONE!!!

Made a batch of Bay Rum this afternoon. A half batch so I can experiment as it matures; add a bit here, a dash there etc.

50 ml of Captain Morgan Spiced Rum
50 ml of Witch Hazel
30 drops of West Indies bay essential oil (Pimenta Racemosa)
1 x whole nutmeg, crushed
1/2 stick of cinnamon, crushed
3 x dried whole cloves
zest of 2 limes (I only had lime juice so I added 3/4 teaspoon)
1/4 x teaspoon whole black peppers
1/2 x teaspoon of vanilla extract

I shook it all up and the Bay essence smelt great. I've now got it stitting in an airtight container for 4 weeks. I'll give it a shake every few days to mix it up. If at the end of 4 weeks I don't believe it is strong enough, just whack it back in the cupboard for a few more weeks. The scent not sweet enough, add a touch more vanilla. When ready strain solution into a nice bottle. Paper coffee filters make good strainers. Chemist Warehouse sell a collection of different sized brown bottles that you can make your own "Dangerous Dale's Bay Rum Reserve After Shave" labels on your colour printer.
A few recipes I saw said add Vodka or Witch Hazel. Being on the tight side I chose the cheaper Witch Hazel.

After yesterdays overwhelming vote to add more alcohol, I went to the cupboard today and added 50 ml more rum, then I read this this evening. (I'm too cheap to buy another bottle of grog anyway). Reckon it was the right choice. Due to the extra rum I also added:

10 x drops of West Indian bay leaf extract
1/2 x teaspoon of vanilla extract
1/2 x stick of cinnamon
1 x clove
10 x whole black peppers.

Added 15 x drops of bay leaf oil, 1 x teaspoon of vanilla and 10 x black peppercorns. This is now at the 14 day mark. Still giving it a swirl daily to stir it up. No more additions now. 2 more weeks to go. I hope it is worth all the anticipation.

Here's an idea - I've had this DIY Bay Rum on the backburner, mainly so that I can secretly watch how @Dale.Whiley goes with his and also as my main side-project at present is doing a batch of cold process soap (just normal soap, not shaving!).

But one of the issues that came up is that to get the alcohol content high enough it can end up making the entire exercise a tad cost prohibitive - and what I specifically mean by that is for the amount of stuffing around it's not massively cheaper than commercial versions so the risk factor included (e.g a batch of cat's wizz!) makes it a bit of a second guesser.

As you've got to use rum - no getting around that - budget $30-35 for an entry level bottle. But then to get the alcohol content higher thats tricky......chemist bought rubbing alcohol is very expensive (which is ridiculous!) and the option most people end up at is using the cheapest available Vodka - again say $27-30 for 700ml.

Well here's what I believe is a good idea. Methylated Spirits. Now HEAR ME OUT.....I've confirmed through several other threads where people were wanting to use it for other medical uses that Digger's brand MS is 95% ethanol, 5% water, <0.1% denaturat (basically a non-toxic bittering agent to make it horrendous to drink). It contains nothing that should provide any issues with external use! Overseas they sometimes use methanol in theirs and this is where issues come up - but the Diggers Brand is (based on the info I've seen) totally clear of this.

MS does have a bit of a stigma around it but thats kind of unfair and largely linked to people's ignorance and linkage to folks drinking it. There's really no reason I can see why one couldn't use it as a completely acceptable substitute for alcohol in external topical application usage. Should allow people to significantly decrease the cost of such projects whilst keeping the alcohol content very high to extract maximum volatiles from the botanicals as per @razorguy 's recommendations.

Been using the DIY Bay Rum for a few days now and with @Nick the Knife's idea (and having nothing to lose but my pride and my first attempt at AS) I added 75ml of Digger's metho to the brew. The bottle of metho smelled shocking before I poured it in. Closed the lid, gave it a shake and I reckon I could still smell metho. Had a straight shave tonight and applied the new brew. The added alcohol (metho) certainly provided a little burn but nothing overpowering as I think the abundant witch hazel, though it seals the skin well, takes away the burn that makes the shave. Once the DIY Bay Rum was on the skin that metho smell "vanished" and the usual Bay Rum smell took over. The scent and staying power is still not there but hopefully my next batch that comes out is 3 weeks will be better in that department as I cut back significantly on witch hazel.

I'm not sure if the is a "metho smell" that is added to stop people drinking it or just my ingrained perception of metho but I reckon I could still smell it, until it was on my face about 7-8 seconds. The extra alcohol evaporated? I got used to it? There actually was no "metho smell"? Whatever the reason, I personally will be adding Digger's again. Even now I still have a slight burn (probably not great for a hot place like Townsville but by no means uncomfortable) as it appears to work. My wife couldn't smell anything but normal Bay Rum, so that'll do me.

 

[Nick the Knife]

@Dale.Whiley , well I'm glad it ended well enough but I'm unsure that adding the high alcohol content via the MS this late in the 'brewing process' for you will have much if any real tangible benefit.

Reason being the main benefit the alcohol brings is to get the scent volatiles out of the whole spices/botanicals - and it might be a case of it being a bit late in the piece to help much (in this regard).

Personally I'd theorise that the best modus operandi would be to have used it from the get go - but as it's the main alcohol kicker to hold off even putting the rum in for a while so that the MS can get as much out of the whole botanicals as possible - perhaps several weeks and then add the rum etc. As by adding it, which is only 40% alcohol you're significantly reducing the alcohol content. Then I'd add the witchazel last of all as I think thats mainly in for skin/astringent reasons - whereas the alcohol is mainly there to help the scent develop.

Thats all off the top of my head and based on what limited knowledge I have of the moving parts etc - and is based on the assumption that a lot of whole botanicals are used, rather than essential oils etc.

 

[Dale.Whiley]

Grest thoughts @NicktheKnife

I already had my new batch down a week with 50ml of rum to 10ml of witch hazel when I added 50ml of Diggers last night so I'll have at least 3 weeks of extra alcohol during the extraction process.

I'll try the metho only for the first 3 weeks next batch.

Thanks for the great advice.

 

[Mark1966]

Once we have this all sorted can we get an agreed P&C formulation - could be our signature aftershave.

 

[Dale.Whiley]

New batch of Bay Rum came out last night. Splashed a little on this morning. The scent is definitely stronger. Instead of 50ml of Witch Hazel I only used 10ml in this batch. Smell was good. Still don't know what the scents were other than Bay leaf with a slight scent of rum, but nice anyway. I only put a little on as the scent was reasonably strong. The scent lasted for several hours and my wife was really impressed by the scent before I left for work. Still not in the same class as Ogollala Limes & Peppercorns. I have another batch due out in 2 weeks with some slight changes of ingredient amounts. I've been using the Digger's metho as per @stillshunter's advice. I may just try rum with the batch I put down tomorrow.

End result: scent is stronger with less Witch Hazel, scent lasts longer and my wife loves it. More info during the week as I learn how application amount works the best.

 

[borked]

Since you're upon a swmbo sabbatical, when is this stuff for trade ?

 

[khun_diddy]

Well obviously its a judgement call by yourself - AFAIK methanol was taken out of Aussie metho quite a long time back - so unless it's VERY old you're fine in that regard. That said I've no idea about any other variables that might affect it.

Whilst it is somewhat subjective I've just checked with a brand new bottle of Diggers Metho that I had in my garage and IMHO absolutely no pong/smell from it that smells like anything but pure alcohol. My bottle was only bought a few weeks back, looks exactly like this. I'd be shocked if anyone had any issues with this as like I said it smells like alcohol, nothing else.

I recall the old metho used to pong a bit and perhaps you have something pretty old? If there's any doubt I'd definitely go get a new one, for $3.40 or so it's not much of a risk and you can keep the old one for cleaning etc (apparently the methanol containing version was a lot better at cleaning etc but killed too many folks who drank it!)

I used to have a GP who prescribed straight metho as the best aftershave known to man.

 

[Dale.Whiley]

Since you're upon a swmbo sabbatical, when is this stuff for trade ?

Still only small batches getting the end product right. I'm not a scent guru so it may take me 6-12 months but when I get something I'm very happy with (not just, "Yeah, it's alright") you will be the first person I send a sample to @borked.

 

[Nick the Knife]

I used to have a GP who prescribed straight metho as the best aftershave known to man.

Haha well for the sake of your own personal wellbeing I'm glad that the above comment is placed is the PAST tense - as thats a somewhat worrying comment to come from a medical professional so hopefully you've moved in to a Dr who doesn't look like this:

I don't think it's impractical to use straight metho as an aftershave - as the current version is essentially just 99.9% alcohol BUT it'd be incredibly harsh on the vast majority of individual's skin and all but certainly do more harm than good. By anyone's definition it'd be well down any 'best' list of aftershaves, unless one has a very odd view of what constitutes 'best'.

New batch of Bay Rum came out last night. Splashed a little on this morning. The scent is definitely stronger. Instead of 50ml of Witch Hazel I only used 10ml in this batch. Smell was good. Still don't know what the scents were other than Bay leaf with a slight scent of rum, but nice anyway. I only put a little on as the scent was reasonably strong. The scent lasted for several hours and my wife was really impressed by the scent before I left for work. Still not in the same class as Ogollala Limes & Peppercorns. I have another batch due out in 2 weeks with some slight changes of ingredient amounts. I've been using the Digger's metho as per @stillshunter's advice. I may just try rum with the batch I put down tomorrow.

Nice to hear that you're refining the product - haha but I think you've mixed myself and @stillshunter coming up - so you're probably going to end up with defamation/libel suits coming from both of us!

 

[khun_diddy]

I don't think it's impractical to use straight metho as an aftershave - as the current version is essentially just 99.9% alcohol BUT it'd be incredibly harsh on the vast majority of individual's skin and all but certainly do more harm than good. By anyone's definition it'd be well down any 'best' list of aftershaves, unless one has a very odd view of what constitutes 'best'.

Yeh, I never took him up on his advice and yes, past tense... He did have an excellent shave every time I saw him though.

 

[Dale.Whiley]

Batch 3 of DIY Bay Rum came out tonight. This batch had real lime skins in the maceration. Applied some tonight before going out - just didn't seem to have the staying power. Batch 2 was very much a clove scent which I personally liked but my wife was a bit so,so on so I cut back. I'll pump it up again in my next batch this weekend. After reading this:

from @Barrister & Mann
Three components of Bay Rum (more/less/none):
- rum
- spice
- citrus

In addition to bay, the other three traditional components of bay rum are rum (the sugary, vanilla-like notes), spice (typically clove, cinnamon and/or allspice, among others), and citrus (typically lime and/or orange). However, many bay rums will completely leave out one or more of these elements. Individual bay rum producers differentiate their products by varying the substance of and relative strength of these components, as well as by adding in other unique touches. Many bay rums can be generally classified as “island style,” emphasizing the bay oil and citrus, or as “cowboy style,” emphasizing the spice.

Reference Products
For island style: Captain’s Choice Bay Rum (aftershave and shaving soap)

For cowboy style: Genuine Ogallala Bay Rum (original scent) (aftershave, shaving soap and other products) [are you listening @borked?]
​

Love the cloves and just totally in awe of the scent from Ogallala. Batch 4 comes out in another 2 weeks but in the meanwhile, batch 5 that goes down this weekend will be loaded with spice (cinnamon, nutmeg and black peppercorns)

​

 

[filobiblic]

You're a cowboy alright! [emoji6]

 

[Dale.Whiley]

Batch 5 went down tonight. I've up'ed the rum, cloves & nutmeg, kept the bay essence,vanilla essence, peppercorns ,cinnamon sticks and witch hazel the same and down'ed the diggers. In 30 days time we'll know if I'm learning anything.

 

[razorguy]

You all know about my passion for aftershave, shaving soap and other shaving products home making. Bay Rum is one of my "classic" aftershaves since I started the hobby of shaving product making, about ten years ago, more or less.
A dear friend of mine who spent his summer vacation in Santo Domingo bought genuine dried bay leaves for me because he knew about my hobby and, moreover, he is also enthusiastic about my shaving products and in fact he uses them all.
I will certainly use the leaves for my next batch of Bay Rum aftershave and it will be great to see the differences between the essential oil and the real bay leaves. As I need to understand the strength of dried leaves, I started experimenting with them, I put them in a tiny jar and started macerating them in 95% ethyl alcohol.

Dried West Indian Bay leaves (Pimenta Racemosa)

Leaves of Pimenta Racemosa macerating in 95% Ethyl Alcohol​

 

[filobiblic]

Love to hear how it goes @razorguy. We have a new player in Australia called @luckypirate who is not only importing Bay Rums, but making their own also. In Australia we may only have the EO, but we have some great Rum to use. [emoji6]