Mingshi 2000S (futur clone)

Korbz

Korbz

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Location
Brisbane
Been seeing some talk recently on this futur clone from China. Maggards have just started stocking it, at $12.99USD. It's available to purchase through Aliexpress at $12.44 AUD delivered (from the most popular distributor there) or through QShave $8.11 delivered. QShave have apparently said that they're all from the same factory, but they claim to do a QC check before sending out product.

Has anyone tried one? Thinking at $10 AUD delivered, can't hurt to give it a go (even if I pif it to someone that I'm trying to get into shaving).



Link to QShave Mingshi
Link to Aliexpress vendor
Qshave-font-b-Adjustable-b-font-font-b-Safety-b-font-font-b-Razor-b-font.jpg
 
Thanks for the heads-up! Just bought one from Maggards. Recently bought a 1960's Gillette Slim on eBay which turned out to be a dud so I'll give this one a try! They look rather pritty so if this one turns out to be another dud it'll look okay in the cabinet!
 
G'day Mark. I think the Slim, like me, is just plain worn out! I bought it purely as a user as I have a similar Slim in pristine (almost mint) condition which Is for my growing collection. I have not pulled the user one down and due to heart problems and hospital time (most of Easter and three days since) , am not likely to... stress is no longer my friend! I think the spring is kaput (actually missing) and, although the "doors" seem to lock down, they come loose during shaving which is a bit scary as I'm on blood thinners and only use blades near the sharpest end of the scale. Not that I necessarily blame the spring for that. I bought the razor from a very good seller who has offered a refund, but I have knocked that back as it's not about the money and he is a really decent bloke I bought the razor having read his description which rightly said that the razor had a fair bit of copper or brass showing, so I can't be shocked when there is wear inside the mecanism. I'm sorry Mark, if this reads a bit strange, but I am certainly below par healthwise and mentally at the moment. I will keep the razor in my "Drawer of regrets" along will some of the other mistakes of my life linger! BTW, I love Slims. My mint one is an absolute gem to shave with! I just want to keep it in that condition for posterity.

Chears L.A.B.
 
I'm a designer and work in manufacturing. This "it came from the same factory so it's the same" thing could not be further from reality. A client specifies what materials are used, what/how much QA is used, the processes, the fit, the finish, how close tolerances etc. This is all money and so a cheap version of a product is cheap, especially when from the same factory because they have skimped on these things. They have chosen a lower QA, a cheaper process, a lower grade material, looser tolerances. As it happens we are building a product for a client I am flat out embarrassed to be involved with. It's built to a price, it's nasty low grade, it's basically rubbish. This has been communicated to the client but they don't care. All they want is a low price.

Secondly, why support a copy cat? If you want a company such as Murker to continue to be viable, design new gear etc, then buy from them. Why send you money to a no-body making a living off someone else's sweat?
 
Sxot said:
Secondly, why support a copy cat? If you want a company such as Murker to continue to be viable, design new gear etc, then buy from them. Why send you money to a no-body making a living off someone else's sweat?
Click to expand...

Look I agree to a point. Since being new to DE shaving I have had to purchase nearly up to a dozen safety razors to find the four to keep for my face type and style of use. Still have not found it and to RAD knockers it isn't that simple. Not like you can go to the local razor library and borrow one.
After hundreds of dollars later I'm still researching and trying.
So yes I purchased a Mingshi futur copy from eBay for $20 shipped. Quality good except where the handle met the collar plate was lacking in plating but no big deal if trying it. If someone is going to inspect it before shipping then feel reassured.
So did I like it. Yes and no, adjustment great and shaved smoothly and well. But for me I have a mole just above my nasolabial line and due to the head size nicked it twice badly so drawed it.
Will offer up for pif later once I'm back home.
 
Sxot said:
I'm a designer and work in manufacturing. This "it came from the same factory so it's the same" thing could not be further from reality. A client specifies what materials are used, what/how much QA is used, the processes, the fit, the finish, how close tolerances etc. This is all money and so a cheap version of a product is cheap, especially when from the same factory because they have skimped on these things. They have chosen a lower QA, a cheaper process, a lower grade material, looser tolerances. As it happens we are building a product for a client I am flat out embarrassed to be involved with. It's built to a price, it's nasty low grade, it's basically rubbish. This has been communicated to the client but they don't care. All they want is a low price.

Secondly, why support a copy cat? If you want a company such as Murker to continue to be viable, design new gear etc, then buy from them. Why send you money to a no-body making a living off someone else's sweat?
Click to expand...

We're talking a sub-$10 product to purchase, not a high value item. Chinese factories with cost scaling in place are not going to change lines specifics for product with such tight revenue margins. The cost to alter the production run would bump up COGS and throw their modelling out from a commercial aspect. We see this in the Australian market for things like Bread,Milk etc. supplied as no name brands, where it is cheaper to supply rebadged product vs. lesser quality.

Secondly, where do you think Merkur get the idea for half their razors? You think the Progress is an original design and wasn't copied from someone else? The original patent on the Futur was 1983, so well and truly expired. If Merkur products are worth a 1500% markup, I'm sure they will continue to be popular. Otherwise, they may need to look at their cost structure.
 
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Sxot said:
I

Secondly, why support a copy cat? If you want a company such as Murker to continue to be viable, design new gear etc, then buy from them. Why send you money to a no-body making a living off someone else's sweat?
Click to expand...

+1. To copy a design, someone needs specs, no business ethics and a crooked lawyer. A shaving enthusiast would have made improvements and probably a nice razor.
 
Korbz said:
We're talking a sub-$10 product to purchase, not a high value item. Chinese factories with cost scaling in place are not going to change lines specifics for product with such tight revenue margins. The cost to alter the production run would bump up COGS and throw their modelling out from a commercial aspect. We see this in the Australian market for things like Bread,Milk etc. supplied as no name brands, where it is cheaper to supply rebadged product vs. lesser quality.

Secondly, where do you think Merkur get the idea for half their razors? You think the Progress is an original design and wasn't copied from someone else? The original patent on the Futur was 1983, so well and truly expired. If Merkur products are worth a 1500% markup, I'm sure they will continue to be popular. Otherwise, they may need to look at their cost structure.
Click to expand...

Sub $10 for the copy? Are you saying that the future costs the same to build as the copy? They might be, they might not be too. We don't know so to say they are the same is wrong. Even assuming they don't change processes or tooling since they are geared up for production doesn't mean they don't drop QA, tolerances (precision), substitute lower grade materials or skip processes entirely.

The point I am making - and I've done now that so I will move on is that the copy cat isn't going to innovate or bring new products to the market. They just copy, and buying copies makes it less likely that the originators won't either. Merkur may well have copied aspects of other razors, but it's still a unique design.
 
Sxot said:
Sub $10 for the copy? Are you saying that the future costs the same to build as the copy? They might be, they might not be too. We don't know so to say they are the same is wrong. Even assuming they don't change processes or tooling since they are geared up for production doesn't mean they don't drop QA, tolerances (precision), substitute lower grade materials or skip processes entirely.

The point I am making - and I've done now that so I will move on is that the copy cat isn't going to innovate or bring new products to the market. They just copy, and buying copies makes it less likely that the originators won't either. Merkur may well have copied aspects of other razors, but it's still a unique design.
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Ahh I see the misunderstanding. No, not saying the futur and clone are from the same factory. The clones are from the same factory mate (QShave and Aliexpress products are produced in the same place, but packaged by different firms). Certainly don't think the Futur has anywhere near the QC issues the copies do.

Clones have a place in the market to rationalise pricing once patent holders recover their innovation investments (see pharmacy etc.)
 
Generic drugs have the same high quality, strength, purity and stability as brand-name drugs. Generics and regulated (TGA? and FDA in US). Generics are cheaper, may look different, and packaged differently.

Years ago my brother took up high end watch repair as a hobby. He would not work on Rolex watches as the majority were fake.

There are replicas and clones. There are fine lines. There are $40 Rolex watches.
 
Batch300 said:
Generic drugs have the same high quality, strength, purity and stability as brand-name drugs. Generics and regulated (TGA? and FDA in US). Generics are cheaper, may look different, and packaged differently.

Years ago my brother took up high end watch repair as a hobby. He would not work on Rolex watches as the majority were fake.

There are replicas and clones. There are fine lines. There are $40 Rolex watches.
Click to expand...

No question the quality of product varies between examples, however I thought the problem was ethics? It shouldn't matter how good the clone is if you don't support taking someone else's work ethically right? Or is it ok to compromise ethics as long as you're buying a similar quality product?
 
@Korbz Sorry for any confusion on ethics.

I support products that are different in looks, properly marked, legal and perform as expected (generic drugs for example).
I do not support replicas that 100% copy existing current products (clones for example)

Personally, if my choices were a $40 Rolex and a $40 El Cheapo, I would either buy the $40 El Cheapo or no watch.
I am guessing most clones are intended to make a profit, not make the world a better place.
 
Korbz said:
We're talking a sub-$10 product to purchase, not a high value item. Chinese factories with cost scaling in place are not going to change lines specifics for product with such tight revenue margins. The cost to alter the production run would bump up COGS and throw their modelling out from a commercial aspect. We see this in the Australian market for things like Bread,Milk etc. supplied as no name brands, where it is cheaper to supply rebadged product vs. lesser quality.

Secondly, where do you think Merkur get the idea for half their razors? You think the Progress is an original design and wasn't copied from someone else? The original patent on the Futur was 1983, so well and truly expired. If Merkur products are worth a 1500% markup, I'm sure they will continue to be popular. Otherwise, they may need to look at their cost structure.
Click to expand...
Actually, in one of my prior jobs, I've direct experience that counters the point being made by you.
Place manufactured chips, the cold snack type, not the hot main meal type.
They ran three grades of potato for the chip and the same again for flavouring (house and premium brand for third parties and the highest quality was exclusively reserved for in house).
If a product was below the grade it was designated to be used for, yet met a lower grade, it was utilised for that.
Same line, cooking and packaging process though.
 
borked said:
Actually, in one of my prior jobs, I've direct experience that counters the point being made by you.
Place manufactured chips, the cold snack type, not the hot main meal type.
They ran three grades of potato for the chip and the same again for flavouring (house and premium brand for third parties and the highest quality was exclusively reserved for in house).
If a product was below the grade it was designated to be used for, yet met a lower grade, it was utilised for that.
Same line, cooking and packaging process though.
Click to expand...
Not sure on the value chains for that instance mate, but it has been done, and still is done where people produce various skus on the same line for varying purposes. We do differing grades of the same essential product on the same lines as well (water for example). There comes a point where rationalisation of skus needs to be evaluated investigating gains in scaling benefits, unless there is enough margin to justify continued production. Some of the bottled water mobs that just produce and label product, won't vary the water inside the bottle based on the label :) Not when you're talking a $4-6/ctn product produced in Australia. Yet others sell multiple brands produced by the same company, and there is certainly a difference between the brands that come off the same lines (vapour distilled water, do you believe that shit).

Batch300 said:
I support products that are different in looks, properly marked, legal and perform as expected (generic drugs for example).
I do not support replicas that 100% copy existing current products (clones for example)

Personally, if my choices were a $40 Rolex and a $40 El Cheapo, I would either buy the $40 El Cheapo or no watch.
I am guessing most clones are intended to make a profit, not make the world a better place.
Click to expand...

That's a fine line mate, as we're not talking counterfeiting. I agree with you on that, and do not support it. These razors are not sold as futurs, so different to the Rolex thing. It's not illegal to sell products that do not claim to be something they're not.

The discussions have been fun on this, but pulling out now of further talks on it :)
 
Korbz said:
Not sure on the value chains for that instance mate, but it has been done, and still is done where people produce various skus on the same line for varying purposes. We do differing grades of the same essential product on the same lines as well (water for example). There comes a point where rationalisation of skus needs to be evaluated investigating gains in scaling benefits, unless there is enough margin to justify continued production. Some of the bottled water mobs that just produce and label product, won't vary the water inside the bottle based on the label :) Not when you're talking a $4-6/ctn product produced in Australia. Yet others sell multiple brands produced by the same company, and there is certainly a difference between the brands that come off the same lines (vapour distilled water, do you believe that shit).



That's a fine line mate, as we're not talking counterfeiting. I agree with you on that, and do not support it. These razors are not sold as futurs, so different to the Rolex thing. It's not illegal to sell products that do not claim to be something they're not.

The discussions have been fun on this, but pulling out now of further talks on it :)
Click to expand...
I for one, would be interested in such intimate knowledge being made open, even if via PM mate :)
I do understand and agree with the point upon cost scale rationalisation.
It definitely is a valid one.

Now how do I get myself some of this vapour distilled water?
That shit should be almost at the point of de-mineralised, since solids and particles shouldn't vaporise.
 
Ok so I ordered one of these qshave clones from ali express and just shaved with it for the first time this evening. Went with shaver heaven 1st anniversary and a polsilver and I have to say I was really impressed. I was a bit concerned before the shave because to my eye the alignment/exposure seems a touch off, but I think I was able to fiddle the top cap around to where it was as lined up as possible and just went for it. I had around 4 days growth and went for a setting of 2. I was really surprised by how smooth yet efficient the shave was. Minimal blade feel to speak of and much quieter than I'm used to. Did my usual two passes and got a really nice, close shave. I'm way more impressed than I expected to be.
 
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