Boy, don't the prices jump?

Arnold J Rimmer

Member
2017 Sabbatical Fail
Artisan Producer
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Location
NSW Central Coast
Last night, I was a bit bored. Boring footy matches on TV, yawn.

So I thought I would browse around at what insanely high grit stones are available for sale around the planet.

I found 20- and 30,000 grit stones, which sound like magnificent finishers. But gee, if you wanted both, you would not get a lot of change out of $1000.

Now, as someone who probably outlaid $100 on the 4 that I have, that is quite a step up.

I have a 13k, but I am thinking that if a reasonable 20+ came up for sale, I would pull the trigger. But at $300+ for a piece of stone, I can't justify that.

1000 - 8000 grit seem to be very cheap, regardless of where they come from. Are these high number stones really that rare, or are you paying by the grit?

Anyway, that's my rant.
 

borked

Shave, collect B&M pokemon, vodka, sleep, repeat
Grand Society
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Da Menth Heads
2018 Charity Auction Winner
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Far from the most expensive stone per gram ;)
 
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Location
Gladstone, Queensland, Australia
@RazorPlay

Straights are and will always be the cheaper option so don't skimp on your initial outlay & you will be set for at least a life time, but you need some guidelines,

so stick to these 10 easy steps:

1 Don't get sucked in by the hype and get RAD, SAD, BAD, HAD or SSAD etc - one of each essential item is enough to survive
2 DON'T GET SUCKED IN BY THE HYPE - Seriously 1 Brush, 1 Razor & 1 Strop is all you need to survive ( unless you damage one of them )

3 buy 1 good quality Brush ( $50 - $200 budget )
4 buy only 1 good quality razor "shave ready" - preferably a wedge it will last longer ( $100 - $300 budget)
5 buy 1 good quality strop with a natural second ( linen, cotton etc) ( $100-$200 budget)
6 paste the inside of the linen strop ( $20 budget )
7 never look at any stones, as they only make your bevels flat
8 learn to strop properly and strop 20 plus laps on clean linen & clean leather prior to every use, then strop 10 plus laps on clean linen & leather after every use,
9 strop on pasted linen, only as required to keep the edge keen,

10 if you find yourself questioning your options for items 3 to 7 refer to steps 1 & 2 again.

now I intentionally left the soaps & after shaves out of this as they are a consumable and a decent puck of soap ( $20 budget ) and a nice after shave ( $50 budget ) can each last up to a year, so don't look any further one soap & aftershave really is enough to survive, if in doubt refer to steps 1 & 2

use the razor every day for the rest of your life if you want, then pass the whole kit to your youngest grandson to use for their entire life

now divide that $700 high end kit outlay by the number of shaves
you start shaving with a straight when you see the light say age 40 until 80 ( 40 years )
pass on insight to all Grandchildren, so they start shaving with a Str8 at say age 18 to 80 ( 62 years )
so say 100 years of shaving an average of even once per week, gives you 5200 shaves
$700 / 5200 shave = less than 14 cents per shave once a week or less 5 cents if 3 shaves a week average

now if you can follow these simple steps & not get seduces by the lure of shiny blades & fancy scales or softer tipped brushes with fancy handles or an inclination to join national geological society to help you look for smoother and smoother rocks or the requirement to use a different scented soap or aftershave every day - let the rest of a know how you did it

remember this is JMHO & YMMV
 

Ferret619

Foolish Possums are not Grand Poobahs
2018 Sabbatical
2019 Charity Auction Winner
2020 Charity Auction Winner
Joined
May 10, 2017
Location
Canberra
@RazorPlay

Straights are and will always be the cheaper option so don't skimp on your initial outlay & you will be set for at least a life time, but you need some guidelines,

so stick to these 10 easy steps:

1 Don't get sucked in by the hype and get RAD, SAD, BAD, HAD or SSAD etc - one of each essential item is enough to survive
2 DON'T GET SUCKED IN BY THE HYPE - Seriously 1 Brush, 1 Razor & 1 Strop is all you need to survive ( unless you damage one of them )

3 buy 1 good quality Brush ( $50 - $200 budget )
4 buy only 1 good quality razor "shave ready" - preferably a wedge it will last longer ( $100 - $300 budget)
5 buy 1 good quality strop with a natural second ( linen, cotton etc) ( $100-$200 budget)
6 paste the inside of the linen strop ( $20 budget )
7 never look at any stones, as they only make your bevels flat
8 learn to strop properly and strop 20 plus laps on clean linen & clean leather prior to every use, then strop 10 plus laps on clean linen & leather after every use,
9 strop on pasted linen, only as required to keep the edge keen,

10 if you find yourself questioning your options for items 3 to 7 refer to steps 1 & 2 again.

now I intentionally left the soaps & after shaves out of this as they are a consumable and a decent puck of soap ( $20 budget ) and a nice after shave ( $50 budget ) can each last up to a year, so don't look any further one soap & aftershave really is enough to survive, if in doubt refer to steps 1 & 2

use the razor every day for the rest of your life if you want, then pass the whole kit to your youngest grandson to use for their entire life

now divide that $700 high end kit outlay by the number of shaves
you start shaving with a straight when you see the light say age 40 until 80 ( 40 years )
pass on insight to all Grandchildren, so they start shaving with a Str8 at say age 18 to 80 ( 62 years )
so say 100 years of shaving an average of even once per week, gives you 5200 shaves
$700 / 5200 shave = less than 14 cents per shave once a week or less 5 cents if 3 shaves a week average

now if you can follow these simple steps & not get seduces by the lure of shiny blades & fancy scales or softer tipped brushes with fancy handles or an inclination to join national geological society to help you look for smoother and smoother rocks or the requirement to use a different scented soap or aftershave every day - let the rest of a know how you did it

remember this is JMHO & YMMV
If you go minimalist DE is cheaper in my opinion.
Razor $10-20 (tech off eBay)
Blades per 100 $9-$20 (derby-GSB)
Brush $25-$50 (whipped dog)
 

Ferret619

Foolish Possums are not Grand Poobahs
2018 Sabbatical
2019 Charity Auction Winner
2020 Charity Auction Winner
Joined
May 10, 2017
Location
Canberra
If only I could work out how to go minimalist! I do agree with you though, @Ferret619!
The thing is that if you where getting hones and razors or even taught to shave with a straight as part of growing up it would be a different story though, the cost is incurred by having to figure it out alone.
 
Joined
May 17, 2016
Location
Hunter Valley NSW
I own a wide range of very high quality stones etc. including some fine Japanese water stones (used for knifemaking & sharpening) but I still don't feel inclined to abandon my beautiful DE stuff and start hacking away at my throat and face with a bloody straight!
 

bald as

ARKO! dealer & walking ECG
Joined
May 4, 2015
Location
Adelaide
:) Excellent points @Substance.

My score is not quite 10/10 though.

As for high end stones, I have a Coticule [175x50] and a full size [200x75] Kiita Kan Jnat with 3 Nagura slurry stones and a full size Chinese waterstone with 8-15k [guesstimate] slurry stones.
The Jnat is considered a very high grit stone for an exceptionally fine finish but the Coticule is not regarded nearly as fine. The Chinese stone is in between. Which stone is better? Good question, The Coticule is both smooth and sharp, the Jnat is keen and sharp and with a final slurry the Chinese stone is some of the character of both.

Under magnification the Coticule edge looks pretty rough. The Jnat edge is pristine and smooth and the Cnat with slurry is smooth and frosted. As @Sxot rightly pointed out it is a good thing we don't shave on edge appearance alone. If I do everything from the initial bevel correctly all finishers provide an excellent shave.

I'm sure a 30k stone is fantastic and possibly for someone who hones professionally it is certainly a justifiable hone to have for the ultimate in final finish. My most expensive purchase has been the Coticule and it has taken nearly 12 months to even begin to understand how to really use it, the Jnat was a trade and from day one the edges were great and the Cnat was $50 delivered and after days of lapping it also gave top edges.

Would I like a 30k hone :) of course, I probably have HAD but thankfully don't have MONEY anymore.
If I had a 30k hone it would probably be wasted as although I do a reasonable job of my own blades I doubt I could utilize the full potential.

Right from the start of my honing journey I finished on a natural hone [Cnat] so I have very limited experience with high grit synthetics.

@Substance what are your recommendations for a high grit synthetic?

Steve
 

Ferret619

Foolish Possums are not Grand Poobahs
2018 Sabbatical
2019 Charity Auction Winner
2020 Charity Auction Winner
Joined
May 10, 2017
Location
Canberra
I own a wide range of very high quality stones etc. including some fine Japanese water stones (used for knifemaking & sharpening) but I still don't feel inclined to abandon my beautiful DE stuff and start hacking away at my throat and face with a bloody straight!
I think your teqnique might need work
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2016
Location
Perth
@RazorPlay

7 never look at any stones, as they only make your bevels flat
------

$700 / 5200 shave = less than 14 cents per shave once a week or less 5 cents if 3 shaves a week average
Great post @Substance!

I already have all the brushes, soaps etc I need for many years... maybe a decade, depending on how much product I use. Indeed I should sell some...

I'm interested in your item 7 though as it appears to be at odds with most SR advice. I thought having to hone your blade was a mandatory thing at some point? I thought pasted strops were just a stop gap measure to extend the edge for longer before honing? I'm not keen on sending out for honing services and the rabbit hole of hones looks awfully deep from what I can see on various forums... I had hoped that lapping film would be another option perhaps? I wonder how all those old razors got hone wear if they didn't actually need to be honed?

I already have a Feather Artist Club DX kami and prefer shaving with it to my DEs - I get 15 shaves per Pro Super blade and a 200 blade box is $120, which equates to 4 cents per shave - less than most DEs for me. Also, I shave every day. I would probably sell my DE gear and my Feather too if I could get a decent and reliable SR routine going. I'm actually not a fan of having a variety of razors to shave with - I find it confuses me and slows me down every time I change. When I stick to one razor and get instinctive with it, the results are always better - and I'm doing this for the results!

The only issue I have with the Feather is how each blade starts out so sharp so the first 2-3 shaves are a bit nerve wracking, although I don't get damaged if I'm careful. The next 12-13 though are sublime! I'm wondering whether a straight would iron out that inconsistency...?
 

lerenau

...is a cheeky monkey
2018 Charity Auction Winner
2020 Charity Auction Winner
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Location
Canberra
No intention of learning to use a straight for this little black duck! Over my life I have found plenty of ways to get injured without actively seeking another!
A straight and a motor bike and a woman are very similar. If you are apprehensive about riding a bike - take a car.
Fixed that for you... ;)

Speaking as a married, (ex) motorcycling, DE shaver (with a child!) I can totally relate to all points above.
I will probably give straights a go *eventually*. They're so pretty! But, like all pretty things, they are likely to cut me financially and physically.

C'est la vie!
 
Joined
May 17, 2016
Location
Hunter Valley NSW
In my time I have owned nine different motorcycles! Two major smashes on bikes have provided a lot of entertainment for doctors viewing some of my X-rays, and border security people at airports, and coppers at courthouse entrances (I was an advocate & counsellor) with wildly beeping scanners. The Army, of course, contributed to my collection of plates and screws, and a year ago I did a compound fracture on my wrist with a T-shaped plate with nine screws on my own toilet bowl! (Long story!) Doctors told me at that time and others that I have a very high tolerance for pain...... but I STILL don't want a straight razor!
 
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