Knives & Knife sharpening

JugV2 said:
I need to learn to sharpen. I have three or four great knives that now have little to no edge, and my butcher charges me $50 to get the lot sharpened every few months.

I would love to learn how to do it myself. I'm scared of developing another addiction.
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Get an EdgeFaux!
 
I do too. I've got an old steel that seems to work well with crappy knives for a butchers touch up, but just got an Icel and it has a nice edge on it. Don't know how long that'll last. I've got a stone, but don't know if it useful, it's 1000/240
 
JugV2 said:
I guess so; there should be plenty of tutorials on youtube.
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It really is very easy to use - even a mug like me can get a decent edge.

Lots of help and advice and vids on the EdgePro website here.

I almost feel like getting the real thing to support them ...
 
JugV2 said:
I need to learn to sharpen. I have three or four great knives that now have little to no edge, and my butcher charges me $50 to get the lot sharpened every few months......
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Fifty bucks will get you a decent 1000-1500 grit whet stone. From here for instance: http://www.carbatec.com.au/japanese-waterstone-1200-grit_c21463 [/quote]

JugV2 said:
......I would love to learn how to do it myself. I'm scared of developing another addiction.
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You're a drummer, you have hand eye coordination. You'll piss it in. It'll take you less time than going to and from your butcher to get them sharpened. It's really not that hard and you'll make your knives sharper even if you're making beginner mistakes. Yes, developing another addiction is of course an inherent danger. All I can say is that if all you want to do is keep your kitchen knives sharp you do not need anything else but one 1000-1500 grit run-of-the-mill Japanese whet stone. They're nice and wide and heavy so all you need is to put them on a wet dish cloth. Just check out a free hand knife sharpening video. Don't whatever you do go and lurk or join any knife sites. Aside from the fact you'll be severely tempted to purchase the knife sharpening equivalent of 20 razors, 5,000 blades and enough software to last you 10 lifetimes, they're all populated by the most select collection of morons you could ever imagine.
 
Both the EF and stone options are good. It really comes down to the choice of ease of use versus sharper edge. Both options will give you sharp knives. The Edge Faux/Pro is easy to use, makes it impossible to fuck up, and gives you the selection of stones in case you ever need to fix an edge/re-profile/whatever. The stone will give you a sharper knife with good bite, and teach you a worthwhile skill that becomes quick and easy once you get used to it. Easier to use (IMO) with big knives (>240mm) as well, because you don't need to be moving them around on a frame. Don't worry about the addiction side; one decent stone is all you need to keep your knives in good working order. Some crazies will go 320/1000/5000/10000 to get their knives sharp. The difference between using four stones and using one is probably <10%. My little Tojiro petty is sharp enough to shave my arm hair with after the 1000 stone. Extra stones are more for polishing the edge and removing scratches than actual function, or for specialist tasks like removing a burr on a single bevel knife.

Two recommendations from me. Blueway Japan sell a 1k King stone with an angle guide for about $40 shipped. Similar enough to the EF to give it serious consideration, IMO. Carba-Tec were recommended to me by Pj too, they used to sell King stones but they seem to have a house brand now.

Also, if you can find a pair of old jeans, cut a length of denim and wrap it around a piece of plastic or pipe. Use it to strop your knives once they're sharp. It's gentler and less likely to chip the edge on Japanese knives especially, particularly if you're used to going heavy on the steel.
 
Drubbing said:
I can imagine...

Ah needs me a sharp knife to gut the pig I done killed with ma crossbow...
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I was expecting a bit of that but the illiterate, blinkered ignorance was astounding. As you get with any specialised site there were many who joined just to ask which stainless knife they should get with their 100 dollar Walmart voucher or equivalent budget and were told almost with out fail that it would be a complete waste of money as the only knives to buy were carbon steel and Japanese and started at $350 and while you're at it throw away that shitty King whet stone you're suggesting to use and spend another $500 on at least three other ones. Never did any of the moderators or senior members ever chime in to be more helpful. I once did and suggested that a site with Knives and Knife sharpening in it's name should also be mature enough accommodate people who weren't complete Jap knife tragics and was basically told to f**k off. When I responded likewise I was expecting to get the ban stick thrown at me but all I got was a PM from a mod saying that people on this site love Jap knives. That was all. I banned myself after that.
 
You could be happy either way with something like that, Jug. If your butcher is using them, they're probably up to copping a fair beating on the steel anyway, so you'll have no problem keeping it sharp once it gets there. My old man's Wusthof Trident knives are stainless, and they touch up nicely on the EF once a month, a couple of passes on the steel every few days keeps them keen. I'd encourage you to get a stone because I think the result is better, but the EF is a sure thing.

I need to buy a ceramic steel for the j-knives. I was silly and steeled the petty on the Wusthof steel. Now it has a chip that needs some work. I think I'm going to make a little project of it, sand back the kurouchi layer, stain the handle a dark brown and give it a tea patina so it looks a bit nicer.
 
JugV2 said:
well this is my main knife I use for cutting meat.

I swapped some car racing baseball cap with my butcher (he's a mad kart racer and loved the hat, I had a spare my wife's work gave me....pfft free knife!)

The "Butcher Knife" second one down the page is the one.

http://www.dick.de/en/tools-for-chefs-and-butchers/news/news-for-butchers/
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That's a pretty standard butchers knife. With that sweeping profile, probably not the easiest one to start your sharpening but don't let that stop you. Most kitchen knives have a flatter profile and don't require much adjusting to follow the arc.
 
I love a bit of sharpening too.

I have heaps of knives, too many for the kitchen drawers. Stainless and Carbon steel.

I have this square rod thing that I have used for about 30 years and it is now perfect for running along a blade to keep it very sharp.

I have three folded Carbon steel Japanese swords ( Shinken /Katana), which I would use for test cutting on tatami mats and sharpening those takes a bit of precision.

I had to stop my sword arts about a year ago due to some movement issues.

I really do love a sharp blade though.
 
So, after a couple of months of using the King 1k/6k combo stone I decided that it dishes too much to be able to continue with my haphazard floor tile and sandpaper flattening process. I have a mate who has a bunch of diamond plates for his tools, and he was getting sick of me badgering him to lap it for me too. I have no complaints about the quality of the stone, and for normal use it would be fine, but I kept lapsing into doing a whole bunch of knives at once. After doing ten at a time, the dishing is way more noticeable and it made sense to look for a better option. So, I sold the King to my mate for his kitchen knives and ordered a Bester 1200 from Japan. It supposed to be harder and cut fasting with less dishing, so I think it'll be a little better for my parents Wusthof knives than the King while still letting me set scary edges on my Jap knives.

Now I'm in the market for a cheap diamond plate of my own, which I think is a priority over getting a finishing stone. If anyone knows someplace online where they can be had, I'd appreciate a heads up.
 
Yeah the King will dish. Personally don't find that too much of a problem but if you're regularly sharpening ten knives at a time it would be a pain (is this turning in to a profession?). The Bester will also dish by the way but not so much. Good diamond plates aren't really cheap as you are no doubt aware and weigh a fair bit so postage will be costly too. If I can find a shop in Perth (the arsehole of the shopping universe) I'm sure you can find a shop or two in Melbourne. Carbatec stock DMT diamond plates. Not sure if they do online ordering:

MELBOURNE

80-82 Osborne Ave., Springvale, Vic., 3171
Phone - (03) 8549 9999
Fax - (03) 8549 9998
Email - melbourne@carbatec.com.au

TRADING HOURS -
8:30am - 5:00pm Monday to Friday
9:00am - 1:00pm Saturday
ORDERING:1800 658 111
 
Thanks mate, I had a look at the DMT plates at Carbatec. I'd like to find something of a reasonable size a little cheaper if possible. I'm not sure how large my flattening plate needs to be, but if it's as least half as big as the stones that it's going to be flattening, the price seems to be getting up there. I've found a decent sized one for about $50, but I'm waiting to hear back from the seller about the grit and suitability for lapping.

The ten-at-a-time thing has more to do with feeling a need to get value for time spent each sharpening session. So I take my knives, and my parents knives, and then I'm stuck with a big pile. Having sharp knives is addictive apparently, so any time they start to dull they come back. I've been wondering about strops and steels and if they might help.
 
I've got a fairly small sized DMT. It's actually a bit smaller than the stones I've got. You have to use a bit of judgement when using it but I'm used to using tools like that. I still use sandpaper occasionally. It's still the cheapest and easiest way to flatten stones if you ask me. Messy though. Why don't you just wait for your stone to turn up and suck it and see. To be honest, for me, a diamond stone was the lowest priority. I use it for other things so that's how I justified buying it.
 
I just figure that if I'm gunna get into stones, I'm probably going to want one after my next stone anyway, so I might as well try and find one. Might as well see how sandpaper goes with the new stone first though I guess.

Whats your post-stone process like mate? Do you use them straight off the stones, or strop or steel them? I've learnt my lesson about using the Japanese knives on the Wusthof steel, and occasionally I use a piece of denim as a strop to get rid of any small burrs. Not sure if I would get much benefit from one of those Idahone ceramic jobs, or a paddle strop with pastes. Leaning towards the strop, because later it could be used with razors.

How's that usaba you got from Blueway Japan going too? Thinking about picking up a 270mm sujihiki from the same range, just not sure how the single bevel is to maintain.
 
I tend to use any old steel (ribbed, ceramic or smooth) on my stainless steel knives and a tiny little very high grit stone on my Japanese knives. I occasionally used to use a leather strop on my chisels when I was doing some fine carving (when I used to have a real job!) but I find that a steel works pretty well on knives. Yeah the ribbed ones are a bit of a worry so I stay clear of those on carbon steel.

The single bevel I got from there was a disgrace. I should have sent it back. The hollowing on the back side (I'm sure there's a proper name for that) was completely uneven and looked like it was done by a monkey with a grinder which meant that the cutting edge instead of being dead straight was wavy and hollowed out with the tip curving up the other way. I had to grind 15 mm off the tip and spent hours with the edge of a coarse stone re-doing the entire back side. I understand being a lefty, that the stock of left handed single bevels is probably limited but the quality that thing was just ridiculous. I had fun doing it, it gave me an excuse to buy a coarse stone and it expanded my knife knowledge I guess but I wouldn't buy from there again. The quality of the steel is excellent and the edge is unbelievable. I actually don't use it much but it's just nice to look at. You can sharpen it blind folded, it really is that easy. The cutting edge is dead straight so all primary and secondary bevels and the back are basically in one plain and easy to feel. F**ing sharp though and because it's ideal for cutting very finely you're using it really close to your hands and finger tips so truly scary to use. Also because the edge is dead flat you're cutting board has to be too!
 
This came in today. Going to have a crack tomorrow with the little Opinel to start with.

imageedit_9_9748602256.jpg
 
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