Lions to Lambs

Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Location
Narooma NSW
What has happened to the old giant fragrances? Former lions like Drakkar Noir, Paco Rabanne, Quorum and Lapidus are now wimpering puppies. Personal favourites of Aramis Original and Azzaro are not as emasculated but are still only a shadow of their former power and glory. I have found some modern fragrances with some sillage, such as Jacques Bogart One Man Show which also has the advantage of an economical price, but most of the old legends, IMO, have been watered down to a level where they are just pathetic.

Any opinions??

Cheers, George
 
Lions are endangered and the price of lamb is at an all time high. Coincidence?
 
Changes that resulted in reformulation of shave soaps, affected this field too.
 
Yeah, many of the classic scents are being neutered by EU legislation on the ingredients allowed in fragrances. There has been a few extra ingredients which have been banned in the EU recently, most of which are known allergens - however only a small amount of the population are actually allergic to them. Most of the major European houses are madly trying to reformulate to keep their known scent while removing the ingredients now no longer permitted.

IFRA - the International FRagrance Association also dictates terms to members on what they can sell in terms of ingredients, and also in terms of concentrations of these ingredients. Members agree to abide by the IFRA rules, although not all perfumers are members and as such there may be perfumes with higher than allowed concentrations of certain ingredients in the market. While IFRA sees this as important for consumer safety, many consumers see it at the fragrance changing.

In short:

EU has banned something like 30-35 ingredients. IFRA has banned about 70 ingredients, and set levels for use on a large number more.

Most of these ingredients are actually known for contributing to photosensitivity mostly, but also skin irritation/allergies .
 
Thanks for the explanation Monsta_AU. I can see how these bans may alter the fragrance, but would it affect the sillage and longevity? My favourite. Aramis Original, smells very similar to what I remember from the 80s, but doesn't project or last as long. Seeing the first ingrediant as water in many of them makes me wondered if they are being diluted.

Cheers, George
 
@Sinister Topiary
Most definately.
An inferior quality item results in an inferior performing item.
Worse when they're forced to resort to diluted mixtures to achieve the same signature scent.
 
Thanks @Monsta_AU for that. I'd heard something but not the details. It's why Fitjar has pulled out of shaving products.
 
Thanks for the explanation Monsta_AU. I can see how these bans may alter the fragrance, but would it affect the sillage and longevity? My favourite. Aramis Original, smells very similar to what I remember from the 80s, but doesn't project or last as long. Seeing the first ingrediant as water in many of them makes me wondered if they are being diluted.

I think you will find that they may add a little more water / alcohol denat and also vary the other ingredient percentages slightly to try and keep the same overall scent. That said, it's hard to do because of the way certain ingredients interact.

My opinion is that the vast majority of reformulations mean that you lose sillage and projection because they have to reduce the amount of ingredients to meet the IFRA concentration amounts. Note that this might not be the ingredient concentration itself, but the other chemicals in it and other ingredients push another chemical component above a concentration limit. Therefore they have to reduce one ingredient or the other, or both.

There may be another ingredient they can add to help compensate, but the end result is never the same.

@Sinister Topiary
Most definately.
An inferior quality item results in an inferior performing item.
Worse when they're forced to resort to diluted mixtures to achieve the same signature scent.

I wouldn't say they are diluting the mixtures, more that they are trying to:
  • Not have EU banned ingredients in the BoM;
  • Keep other ingredients/chemicals within IFRA guidelines (requirement of IFRA membership);
  • Adjust other ingredients up in percentage; and
  • Substitute where possible to mask the change as much as they can.
You are right, sometimes a substitute ingredient will be a bit more overpowering, so they need to add more water to dilute it out. If the IFRA guidelines say Coumarin cannot exceed 200ppm, and your formulation is 250ppm, then you simply add more water / alcohol denat to the mix to bring it back to 200ppm. You then bump up the other ingredients, and then look for Coumarin-like substances that you can add to mask the fact that you have lost 20% of that base note.

Thanks @Monsta_AU for that. I'd heard something but not the details. It's why Fitjar has pulled out of shaving products.

There is a whole discussion over at BaseNotes if you want to read up on it.
 
Well just like some freaks on here hunt down vintage blades others do the same with vintage scents. I thought it was all a load of codswallop until pretty recently. I'm a fougere guy and so my daily scents include 'shadows of their former glories' such as Azzaro PH - they're just me. A few months ago I scored my first vintage scent a 2nd formulation (mine's circa. 1984 if I recall) Paco Rabbane. I also have the modern, but can I tell you fellas the vintage scent is everything frago freaks bleat on about. You can discern the real Oakmoss, it goes on nice and evolves very differently to the sharper modern equivalent. It is amazing! I only pop the bottle for special occasions (scored it at a good price but it's only 60mL and still sealed examples don't come around very often) - worn twice so far and I'm floating each time.
 
Oh no, another area for exploration ...
 
This may be a stupid question but does aftershave EDT etc degrade over time?? I have vague memories of my brothers wife keeping perfume in the fridge claiming it 'kept' longer... But then she doesn't eat chocolate either so her judgement may not be sound
 
This may be a stupid question but does aftershave EDT etc degrade over time?? I have vague memories of my brothers wife keeping perfume in the fridge claiming it 'kept' longer... But then she doesn't eat chocolate either so her judgement may not be sound
I believe so, hence why I was stoked to have scored a sealed bottle from 1984.
 
So sealed it keeps obviously. Good score then [emoji106]
 
My understanding is that it is exposure to the air that kills your scent. A sealed bottle has little oxygen to react with - and would have done so early on - and so it remains suspended. Obviously this is not indefinite, but helped by a good seal. Now that I have opened the bottle though and introduced more air into the bottle - broken the seal as it were - the race is on….
 
The exposure to Darwin air certainly doesn't kill my scent according to my wife
 
Air, I believe degrades them.
As does heat/humidity/light.

I keep mine in a cool, dark and dry metal filing cabinet.
 
The exposure to Darwin air certainly doesn't kill my scent according to my wife
Yeah I imagine on dry-down the scent evolves, releasing more complex notes. With longevity and good sillage….
 
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