Continued problems with my semogue 1305

borked said:
He's using a straight, so glide is a high priority.
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nah mate, not much of a fan of this kind of sudsy froth. Give me a sharp blade in one hand, hair-o'-the-pig in the other and a glossy slick lather on my face.
 
Honestly, you are probably better off with one of the new 'boar like' synths, stronger bristles and firmer feel.

PAA has them in the Crown King range, something like this: http://phoenixartisanaccoutrements....uro-26mm-synthetic-shaving-brush-faux-ox-horn

I ordered a couple of the softer synths for Christmas presents, mainly as the overall landed price for a couple was cheaper from PAA over Stirling. I was tempted to buy one of these to see how it would go, but thought better of it when I looked at the budget for the next couple of months.
 
pyrokov said:
I only load at the top, however, this brush has a bad tendency to immediately create a tonne of lather in the soap tub. The brush is already loaded with lather when i bring it to my face, not loaded soap if you get what I'm saying. From there I actually cannot even work to improve the lather because the brush immediately flops when i put it to my skin. The bristles bend and I'm actually using a mop that wipes my face pathetically unless i bring it closer to my skin. I'll have to try tomorrow to see if starting with a really squeezed brush would improve its feel.
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Ok from you description you still start out with way too much water.

When you load a brush, you should NOT get lather straight away, you should load it with a paste like substance that many refer to as proto lather. This is harder for some Vegan based soaps, as they take very little water before they "explode" - still you should treat them the same - less water. You should subsequently produce the actual lather in your bowl/on your face. Else you will have a very bubbly lather - please look at @stillshunter pics from his bowl - this is NOT what you want - the resulting lather will collapse straight away and this is a clear sign of too much water/too little product or most likely BOTH.

Which leads me to another mistake I have often observed: trying to produce just enough lather for your shave (trying not to be wasteful). This is very hard IMO - it is much much easier to load and produce the amount of lather a brush is capable off, if that makes sense. Not loading to the brushes full capacity (I prefer even overloading) will most likely lead to the above observed/discussed lather: too much water/not enough product = bubbly poor lather that will collapse very quickly.

If you want to produce less lather, try a smaller brush. Else do what most here do: try out a ton of soaps and have a stash that will last a couple of life times and don't worry about the amount of lather you wash down the sink...

I don't know what soaps you are using - try a little bit of palm lather away from your actual shave. Give yourself some time to play around with the lather (I love it) without the pressure of having to shave with it.

Wring out the brush dry after you soaked it (really hard dry). Load - if a bubbly mess is produced, let it run into the sink or if you like rub it into your face - this is not what you are looking for. Keep on loading. You will start to hear a different/pasty sound - this is what you want and load a lot of that into your brush...then go on to make lather with it.

Now I know what @Drubbing, @Pjotr and co. are saying has it merits. But they are very experienced and use their well known, well tested and for their likings perfect gear. Once you know your brush/soap/cream combinations, you might be able to get quicker to where you want. But first you have to get it right.

Of course a synth is easier to produce lather (in some sense) - but IMO it is way harder to get to that super slick stage, as the brush holds so little water. Also the body shop brush is very prickly and I would only use it in a bowl - I personally would hate to face lather with it.

As for Omega's vs Semogue's: I too have yet to find a Semogue I really like, but this is still very personal. The 1305 should give you great lather - even if you prefer other brushes.
 
Detailed, helpful and wise advice - well said @alfredus !
 
Place the 1305 to one side and buy an Omega boar. Much better brush than the Semogues. I've sold or given away all my Semogues but you'll prize an omega from my cold dead hands.
 
alfredus said:
Ok from you description you still start out with way too much water.
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Agreed. The Marco method is a blight on basic common sense. But he still having issues just using the brush effectively.

I'm still of the opinion, regardless of whether I've good technique and soaps, that it's going to be far easier to get consistent with a brush that is consistent. I know semougue has some fans here, but IME, they are not consistent from one day to the next.

I am, so I'm not the variable. I still have a 1305. I break it out every few months when I remember I still have it. After one shave, or one pass - sometimes even after trying to get a decent lather, it goes back again and I finish my shave with a proper brush.
 
Drubbing said:
Agreed. The Marco method is a blight on basic common sense. But he still having issues just using the brush effectively.

I'm still of the opinion, regardless of whether I've good technique and soaps, that it's going to be far easier to get consistent with a brush that is consistent. I know semougue has some fans here, but IME, they are not consistent from one day to the next.

I am, so I'm not the variable. I still have a 1305. I break it out every few months when I remember I still have it. After one shave, or one pass - sometimes even after trying to get a decent lather, it goes back again and I finish my shave with a proper brush.
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Sounding convincing don't make you right Drubs. But, oh I do like it when you get all earnest....
 
stillshunter said:
Sounding convincing don't make you right Drubs. But, oh I do like it when you get all earnest....
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I don't know. Years of being a Semogue tragic coupled with the realisation (after dumping 8 of them in the forlorn hope that all were factory outliers) that they're just crap sounds convincing to me. With that make of brush you're lucky if you happen to get one that works almost properly rather than you're unlucky to get one that doesn't.

Also what needs to said in evaluating brushes is the difference between face and bowl lathering. Far more than with a bowl you can evaluate the backbone and how a brush behaves as it's in almost constant contact with your face. It doesn't really matter with a bowl because all you're really using it for is to paint pre-prepared lather on your face after all the real work has been done.

I've rebuilt loads of brushes and on one or two occasions have made the mistake of setting the knot too high, which is in essence what Semogue are doing with their brushes, and there is nothing worse than trying to face lather with a brush that develops these chasms near the tips because there's just not the hair density at the working end of the brush to hold the lathered bristles together. Your 1305, although not as pronounced as @pyrokov brush, does the same. Boars, as @alfredus has rightly pointed out, will tend to do that for a bit anyhow but as I've said previously, deliberately constructing a boar brush to exhibit that kind of behaviour is daft if you ask me.
 
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Pjotr said:
I don't know. Years of being a Semogue tragic coupled with the realisation (after dumping 8 of them in the forlorn hope that all were factory outliers) that they're just crap sounds convincing to me. With that make of brush you're lucky if you happen to get one that works almost properly rather than you're unlucky to get one that doesn't.

Also what needs to said in evaluating brushes is the difference between face and bowl lathering. Far more than with a bowl you can evaluate the backbone and how a brush behaves as it's in almost constant contact with your face. It doesn't really matter with a bowl because all you're really using it for is to paint pre-prepared lather on your face after all the real work has been done.

I've rebuilt loads of brushes and on one or two occasions have made the mistake of setting the knot too high, which is in essence what Semogue are doing with their brushes, and there is nothing worse than trying to face lather with a brush that develops these chasms near the tips because there's just not the hair density at the working end of the brush to hold the lathered bristles together. Your 1305, although not as pronounced as @pyrokov brush, does the same. Boars, as @alfredus has rightly pointed out, will tend to do that for a bit anyhow but as I've said previously, deliberately constructing a boar brush to exhibit that kind of behaviour is daft if you ask me.
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I lather 90% on face and have found the Semogue my favourite brush. The 1305 offers the best balance of softness at the tips and backbone deeper down. Having said that the 610 and 620 are mighty fine face latherers too. I have never once ever found an issue with hollowness - but then I use the tips and don't splay the knot so I'm swirling with the glue at the bottom of the knot. I start with slightly splayed circular motion until the charge gets going, then introduce water slowly into the knot as I build. Once I have my lather almost there I typically then move exclusively to painting strokes - actually I found it difficult to photograph the brush post-swirl (above) - as I always subconsciously end with paint strokes.

OK I'm simple obviously, but I've cycled through many a badgers - Simpsons, Thater, shavemac, etc, - and I still prefer my Semogue boar. Yep had an Omega with a fancy handle (31025 'Scarlatti') which I thought was good until my 1305 broke-in. Once it did it was over, the Omega never seemed to soften...

Not arguing right or wrong, this is not a KO - technical or otherwise. As if often stated in our circles, YMMV - it's different strokes for different folks...and some of us folks prefer porcine and some prefer our porcine Portuguese.
(caveat: I have a Semogue badger on its way (fingers-crossed) so I could change my mind on badgers yet)
 
stillshunter said:
........YMMV - it's different strokes for different folks...
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Finally, I've been looking for an acronym to replace the hideous, B&B inspired YMMV. DSDF (different strokes for different folks). The keys are right next to each other on the keyboard too. That's it. I'm on a mission. It's official. YMMV is going to be policed out of existence, like the "G" word and the equally hideous SWMBO.
 
Pjotr said:
I'm on a mission. It's official. YMMV is going to be policed out of existence, like the "G" word and the equally hideous SWMBO.
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Bit harsh mate. Does the wife know she's on the out? Slim reward for putting up with HWFAD*
* He Who Farts All Day
 
Pjotr said:
That's it. I'm on a mission. It's official. YMMV is going to be policed out of existence, like the "G" word and the equally hideous SWMBO.
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Use those Mod powers for good - not evil.

Oh, you are.

Cool :)
 
So it's been a few uses, @alfredus 's tip on starting with less water has definitely helped with the noodle tips, however this has me liking the brush even less. Where I was previously getting an acceptable amount of lather, I'm finding myself getting slightly less than 2 faces of lather (thankfully I don't have much surface area on my face to cover so this BARELY gives me enough lather) and the lathers after the first pass are very thin and a little foamy. What's more, simply the way the brush splays on my face makes for some inconsistent face feel, the random bits of particularly prickly hairs constantly catches me off guard.
I think I'm left to explore 3 more options, load my brush for an absurd amount of time, create my lather with less water to see if the brush gives lather amounts more evenly, or soak the brush for a shorter duration. Soaps I've been using are Proraso green and RazoRock XXX.
 
stillshunter said:
Ummm...think I might have found your problem.
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I can't comment for Razorock as I've never tried it, but as for Proraso, it's hardly a shit soap. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's a decent, honest soap / cream. It may not be a lather hound like some of the artisinal soaps a lot of us have saved money buying but it still makes a good lather.

The Semogue seems to be a marmite brush, you either love it or you hate it
 
stillshunter said:
Ummm...think I might have found your problem.
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Srsly? I found the same issue of pathetic second passes whatever soap I've used. Loading forever often didn't change this one bit. It ain't the soap...

I can't even find my 1305. Must have got rid of. That's option 4. Haven't missed it. Got plenty of others that work and are as softer/softer.
 
Drubbing said:
Srsly? I found the same issue of pathetic second passes whatever soap I've used. Loading forever often didn't change this one bit. It ain't the soap...

I can't even find my 1305. Must have got rid of. That's option 4. Haven't missed it. Got plenty of others that work and are as softer/softer.
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Yep obviously Capt. Obvious is back.
 
pyrokov said:
.........I'm wondering whether I'm still using the brush wrong........It just seems like the soggy bristles and split middle thing has something to do with an inferior technique.........Any tips or is this just how boar is?........
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No, you're not using the brush wrong and no it's not your technique or the soap or the way you add water or whatever. Semogue brushes are just like that. Some people love a brush like that and some don't. I think by posting your concerns you conform to the latter. And no it's not that particular brush because there's a very high probability that the next Semogue boar you buy will do exactly the same because they're deliberately constructed that way.

This thread is going nowhere if you ask me.
 
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