Artisans and the Wet shaving community

filobiblic

filobiblic

Facepeeler Extraordinare
State Convenor - NSW
Group Buy Caporegime
2017 Sabbatical Fail
2016 Sabbatical Fail
2015 Sabbatical Fail
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Location
Sydney
This thread is to discuss the issue that @Nightguard raised: why is a quality Aussie shaving soap not getting the attention it deserves?

Nightguard said:
Wolfpac are not getting much attention for some reason but it's truly excellent soap.
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Here's my thoughts on the topic. Feel free to jump in with yours!

Since the wet shaving community is still quite small, they value highly the engagement with the artisans directly. I think Wolfpac isn't getting much attention because the maker hasn't identified her/himself (whether here or Facebook or in any online capacity). All successful artisans -that I've observed- have engaged with and even built community with their online (and offline) presence.

In Australia (and especially in this current era), the way to build your micro-brand is through community engagement. So where is the maker of Wolfpac?! Where are they turning up? They don't seem to be online but are they working the local market scene in Melbourne?

I know @darcy (who makes Occams) has a very low community engagement online (but could have a great one offline through markets). Hence why his products pop up from time-to-time but aren't flagged or highlighted regularly. He makes excellent local products but he just doesn't invest in an online promotion of them as it's a side-hobby of his.

This could be exactly the same reasons for the maker of Wolfpac to not appear, but it's also IMO why it's not getting much online presence. In comparison, the online community has gotten behind @Anthony because he actively participates in the online (& offline) wet shaving community.

So my short answer is: no engagement with the wet shaving community means no support base and no community promotion. I think there's a direct relationship between artisans of micro-brands and the community that buys their products.
 
Couldn't agree more, I definitely prefer to buy artisan products over commercial products however I am generally not an early adopter and rely mostly on a customer base that have used/experienced the product before I jump in. Also I hold an "old school" view of sellers and prefer to know that there is an actual person behind the brand and as you mentioned with Anthony and even the stray whisker I can "put a face to the name" and in a backwards kind of way, know my money is going to a family/local community. Without an online presence to introduce themselves and maintain contact I find I put sellers into a bucket along with coles/wollies etc and reluctant to give them my business.

Sorry for the long rant
 
nathan1983 said:
Sorry for the long rant
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Nah, that's nothing compared to when our lawyers here get on the case... [emoji6]

Great points! Thanks for your thoughts. I certainly agree with you on the relational aspect. [emoji1417]
 
I think Wolfpac is getting the attention it deserves and it is stocked at Maggards for this reason, his soaps regularly appear on other shaving forums and in SOTD's on reddit where the readership is staggering.

The Australian market is taken care of by way of Con at TSW so I see no issue with his exposure there either. The revenue from Maggards alone will allow a return, growth and expansion more than sufficiently. He has a small, manageable range and excellent up market, but not necessarily artisan branding.

The chap behind Wolfpac may have his reasons for not getting involved in Australian micro-forums, possibly he may be concentrating on growing his brand and market share, and quite frankly his approach is working as he is excelling on both fronts.
 
Lets be realistic - an artisan would likely be far better served by appealing to a mass market than the likes of people like us who frequent shaving forums. There are only so many hours in a day and $ available from a start up for promotion - where are they likely to get most bang for buck? Shaving forums (maybe with the exception of a big USA suspect perhaps) just aren't big enough to reach enough wallets. Better to try to reach the guy in the street instead - there are far more of them!

And who wants their product picked over by the most fussy buyers who use words like base notes, slickness and glide? When you can find a whole lot more other people who will just say "I tried it and it worked great"? I know what I would do...
 
I agree with your comments @filobiblic but would like to add some thoughts as well.

I think a lot of the issues with Australian Artisans breaking in to the world market revolve around the financial aspects. I would assume that the raw materials required to make the products are less costly and more readily available in countries such as the US, (most things are in my experience, ever watch one of those american DIY project videos and then consider building the item? Generally I have found that the cost of raw materials here outweighs the cost of simply purchasing the ready made item, not so in the US where you can save considerable amounts of money by purchasing raw materials and making the item yourself).

This in turn makes the finished product cheaper to produce. The artisan has the option of either adding their margin to a product made from basic raw materials or alternatively can start to use higher grade materials to produce the item and still produce an item that is cost competitive in price. My point here is that I would be fairly confident in assuming that an item made by an Australian Artisan would cost more to produce compared to an item made with similar quality raw materials overseas. This of course drives the sales price of the item made by the Australian Artisan up as compared to the similar item made by the overseas Artisan.

Add to all of that in order for the Australian Artisan to sell his or her product overseas they then have to export the product overseas and that cost is passed on to the consumer regardless of who initially bears the cost. This also increases the sales price of the product. Now you might say "well we buy Artisan products from around the world and we happily pay the shipping charges" and that is a fair statement. However also consider that we have a lot less choice in terms of local product availability. Overseas there is a lot more choice available. Consider the US as an example, off the top of my head I can think of at least 15-20 Artisan or Retail outlets that you can purchase from directly. Soaps from Artisans such as B&M, PAA, Caties Bubbles, Stirling, Mike's, Beaver Woodright produce soaps that are between $10 and $20 USD per tub. Also take in to account that shipping is cheap (2 soaps from PAA ship for around $6 USD) or free. Because of all of this buying a soap from overseas becomes less attractive to the consumer. Put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. Pretend that you are living in the US and you have all of this choice available. Would you pay $25-$30 for a soap from overseas that is going to take several weeks to arrive or would you buy a soap of similar quality for between $10 and $15 and have it within days of ordering?

I think a lot comes down to the saturation of the overseas market and cost associated with purchasing overseas items.
 
Another angle is this: At what stage do you progress from Artisan to commercial?

For me with coffee, I don't have (a) the time, (b) the inclination, nor (c) the machinery to punch out larger volumes. I reckon that if I did, I could easily sell 50kg of coffee per week.

However, I do what I do for the enjoyment, more than the cash. I reckon that when I ramp it up, is when I stop enjoying it as much as I do now.

I think I am in a good position too, where anything not sold is consumed!

Regarding soaps, I would be happy to buy locally (in AU). I think I would need to find a scent that I like, and something that lathers nicely, too.

Reviews on this forum really help with that. Where to buy inside the reviews would be helpful, too.
 
My personal feeling, is that Wolfpac missed the bus when it came to creating brand recognition locally, thus the foundation that would spruik them if their product is worthy, is lacking.
A discounted product campaign for a short period of time or even putting samples into our hands for review, would of likely aided their brand recognition.
I for one am curious as to how well their product works, yet like others here, have also been burnt trying new items.
 
borked said:
I for one am curious as to how well their product works, yet like others here, have also been burnt trying new items.
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+1 If they don't provide sample of their product for me to try it out, then there is no point me buy a full tub of soap if the product is not good enough.
 
Many shaving forums seem to have a bias for local artisans or a certain brand. UK shave forums like Shavemac and local creams/soaps. I recall reading a post regarding US forums - keyword search and forum A and forum B had different brush favorites and by a wide margin. Forums also have "well respected members" and their favorite products.

I live in the US and have used up 2 tubs of Triumph & Disaster shave cream and 1 tub of Occams shave cream. I see very little mention of these products on this forum. I have seen more favorable comments on T&D on a UK forum than here. Members on this forum could be more active in trying and posting about local products.

My current shave cream/soap supply is from Norway (2), Belgium, UK (2), and a US soap. Happy to pay a few dollars more for Intl shipping on occasion and happy to find some bargains. I hope to learn more about AU/NZ products including purchasing.
 
I'm basically with @filobiblic on this. It's almost de rigeur that Artisan = small volume, high quality. Going after the mass market as some suggest here inevitably involves compromise and corner cutting. An interesting example is Otako Organics shaving soap(?) which isn't actually a soap at all. It's an excellent Aussie product, but the cost of making it means that retailers don't want to give it shelf space. When they can sell all of the once great English brands (many beginning with "T" haha) at margins measured in hundreds of percent, making a modest profit on Otako just doesn't play out.

I'm sure @todras could speak to this - he is producing a true artisan product lineup with his brilliant Australian Private Reserve post shave products. I'm sure he will have done the maths, and I doubt he could mass produce to the incredible quality he currently maintains. And as many small businesses have found, generating a demand you can't meet can really be a two-edged sword. If it works, exclusivity permits some pretty creative pricing for a while. If it doesn't, you have a pissed off customer base. And the "flavour of the month" exclusivity syndrome is rarely a durable situation - some other niche product comes along and takes the limelight...
 
@Draco Noir man thank you truly, both for your words here and your support. You really 'get' what I do and will continue doing with the APR port shave products :)

It's definitely the maths but for me it is the passion and the process, I really enjoy formulating the perfume - the individual scents and how they function alone and with others - letting their congress rest and marry as a perfume base. Then formulating the aftershave component of the equasion then bringing it all together and ensuring each stage progresses exactly as it should. I give the bottles a lot of attention throughout the process, if I scaled up I don't see how I could possibly give each bottle the time and attention it needs to turn out how it does as it takes a lot of time and gentle care.

Larger production would mean financial pressures from store vendors pressuring me for a discount or wholesale price as they exist to run as a business and I have so little wriggle room, the only space I have would be to dilute the perfume base from 6% downwards to reduce costs which does not bare thinking about. I make them strong for a reason, it is a tradition established a long time ago that ensures longevity, quality and potency.

I think though at the heart for me personally is that a larger volume may effect my passion for making it in terms of workload and getting in a rut if i had to make large volumes of bottles. That is something I do not ever want to diminish as I really love making my bottles of aftershave and balm as a process, in a small quantity, to make sure each bottle is right and that they are something I would personally use daily.
 
Man their has been some great posts in this thread.

I personally haven't tried Wolfpac shaving soap yet but I say that will change at some point :whistle:. Must admit their current soap line up doesn't have a scent that standouts as a must buy for me currently.

The original point made by @filobiblic has a lot of merit. Apart from being based in Melbourne I know nothing about Wolfpac soaps.

I have over the past two years been in contact with many soap makers and find all of them to be great people that make soap because they like and have a passion for wet shaving. It is not unusual to get a message out of the blue form some very well known soap makers advising of a new soap or just to say hi. Put it this way when you buy soap you tend to go with people you like (almost every soap nowadays well preform well enough to get a good shave from) so it is the artisans you know or the scent profile that grab your attention when buying new soap.

It would be nice to know a bit more about the Wolfpac story.
 
I hate to say it, but it comes down to one word: Advertising. They (wolfpac) just don't do it as far as I can see. Comments such as those above artisans being active on social media and sending samples is simply a means of advertising. Granted, these folks probably just enjoy what they do, so have no desire to go big time and that's fine. Also, we are just a small selection of buyers. How many other groups of buyers there are out there I don't know but just because a product is not being talked about here doesn't mean it's not moving off shelves.

I tend to find one or two brands that I like and just stick with them. I was buying just about every scent Shaver Heaven produced... then they shut shop so I have swung over to an other (US based as it happens) artisan who used to be my second preference. As far as I am concerned, Aussie is preferred but in the absence of one that fits my requirement, I go OS. The likes of Wolfpac, Occams, Washpool don't produce a wide enough product range for me so I don't bother. There are other consideration too, such as I don't like cream, so no Occams - but I do have there pre-shave soap, Washpool I would love to try but the cost of postage for one tub kills it and see comment re range, these days I prefer to buy matching A/S with a soap etc. TSE made a comment on one of his videos last year along the lines of if you want an artisan to continue to succeed, keep buying their products, and not every new thing that comes along". That to me makes a lot of sense. I'm happy with my preferred supplier and have no desire to go elsewhere particularly when it may be wasted money when it turns out it doesn't suit me.
 
Social media hype drives most wet shaving related trends. Forums do to, but target a much more confined audience. While many products are good, the ones that seem to be constantly top of mind are there artificially, rather than purely on the merits of the product itself. Social media provides a soap box for fan boys to champion their favourite soap makers. Good or bad the soap opera that regularly follows provides greater exposure and ensures continued sales. If shipping cost alone was the biggest hurdle, then MdC should not do well with US customers, but favourable reviews in the right places has Americans (as well as others) willing to pay the price.
 
ben74 said:
Social media hype drives most wet shaving related trends. Forums do to, but target a much more confined audience. While many products are good, the ones that seem to be constantly top of mind are there artificially, rather than purely on the merits of the product itself. Social media provides a soap box for fan boys to champion their favourite soap makers. Good or bad the soap opera that regularly follows provides greater exposure and ensures continued sales. If shipping cost alone was the biggest hurdle, then MdC should not do well with US customers, but favourable reviews in the right places has Americans (as well as others) willing to pay the price.
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So what would you recommend? Not that I am in the market for anything of course
 
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Grow a beard?
 
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