Knot and Loft?
- Thread starter bald as
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nsavage
nerroneous at best.
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- Nov 17, 2015
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Loft I can't help with. All I can suggest is that you investigate your preferred knot size and hair type and then investigate what result you get from having that particular knot size and hair type at different loft heights (does that make sense?).
Personally I have become a big fan of two band badger brushes in the 24mm size, I generally let the brush maker set the knot to whatever loft they think is best.
Personally I have become a big fan of two band badger brushes in the 24mm size, I generally let the brush maker set the knot to whatever loft they think is best.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2013
General rule of thumb for me is loft = 2 x knot. So I would go a 24mm knot at 48-50mm loft. Bowl latherers might go 52-54mm.
I quite like Simpson's "Best Badger" grade, and Shavemac Silvertip Extra D01 knots. Both have a lovely balance of soft tips, density and backbone. Simpson "Best Badger" grade knots punch well above their price point.
Break-in is roughly the same but Manchurian knots take a little longer to reach their potential.
I quite like Simpson's "Best Badger" grade, and Shavemac Silvertip Extra D01 knots. Both have a lovely balance of soft tips, density and backbone. Simpson "Best Badger" grade knots punch well above their price point.
Break-in is roughly the same but Manchurian knots take a little longer to reach their potential.
Knot and loft are simply that - preferences. Generally, lower lofts with wider knots will be stuffed more and are firmer.
Hair type is a furphy, there are no standardised grades. Simpsons Best is probably equivalent to others Silvertips. Some of the 'grades' are more marketing terms than descriptions.
As for break in, I don't believe badgers have any. That is for boar, which need a bit of regular use to soften. But they will work out of the box, regardless.
I'm still exploring this aspect.
So far I have discovered I prefer a badger, in a larger knot (duke - 22mmx48?, chubby - 26x50 iirc) but that it is not imperative (wee scot!). As a face latherer, I don't like a floppy knot, backbone is preferred but it needs to be soft on the face. No scrub. To that end, Simpsons Best has been great for me on all three brushes of theirs I have. I long to try a manchurian, or the likes of shavemac silver tip d01 to discover if the softness increases whilst maintaining the backbone. Loft I really know nothing about other than it has been a consequence of the knot diameter I have been trying. I can't actually say why I prefer the larger knot. The amount of lather I get out of the duke, or the chubby is the same, I think it has to do with the coverage on the face.
Do they break in and end up int he same place? I don't have enough experience to say, but my guess is no.
So far I have discovered I prefer a badger, in a larger knot (duke - 22mmx48?, chubby - 26x50 iirc) but that it is not imperative (wee scot!). As a face latherer, I don't like a floppy knot, backbone is preferred but it needs to be soft on the face. No scrub. To that end, Simpsons Best has been great for me on all three brushes of theirs I have. I long to try a manchurian, or the likes of shavemac silver tip d01 to discover if the softness increases whilst maintaining the backbone. Loft I really know nothing about other than it has been a consequence of the knot diameter I have been trying. I can't actually say why I prefer the larger knot. The amount of lather I get out of the duke, or the chubby is the same, I think it has to do with the coverage on the face.
Do they break in and end up int he same place? I don't have enough experience to say, but my guess is no.
alfredus
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Break In: every product changes over time - natural hair even quicker, and then there is the knot itself, which often loosens up.
So yes, at least some badgers do have a break in - we all agree that boars have one, and I know from 3 different Vie-Long horse knots, that they have also one (~5-10 shaves).
My Shavemac 2-band almost had zero change - it was perfect out of the box. My Epsilon 2-band needed some serious loosening up, but tips didn't change and where super soft out of the box - it took some time to wash the gunk out though
My Paladins had a small, but noticeable change in the first ~5 shaves. My TSN LE was almost scrtichy at first, but that went completely.
My Envy had a huge change between the first ~10-15 shaves - feels like a different brush. And I have read that both Simpson Manchurian and Shavemac D01 2 band change a lot during the first month or so. Maybe @Nightguard could elaborate on that, since he got a new Simpson Manchurian?
And in my humble experience with boars (but that has been with only ~10 brushes from Omega and Semogue): they produce very poor lather at first. I always needed at least 5 palm lathers to get a decent result and ~1 month to have a pleasant feeling on my face, with the exception of the SOC, which was very early on pleasant on the face.
As always: YMMV (or whatever we call it here)
The problem with loft is the glue bump, which can make for a very different feel...I would highly recommend these 2 articles by Ken from Paladin:
https://www.paladinshaving.com/page...y-nomenclature-and-a-little-bit-of-philosophy
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/484134-Brushology-On-Loft
So yes, at least some badgers do have a break in - we all agree that boars have one, and I know from 3 different Vie-Long horse knots, that they have also one (~5-10 shaves).
My Shavemac 2-band almost had zero change - it was perfect out of the box. My Epsilon 2-band needed some serious loosening up, but tips didn't change and where super soft out of the box - it took some time to wash the gunk out though
My Paladins had a small, but noticeable change in the first ~5 shaves. My TSN LE was almost scrtichy at first, but that went completely.
My Envy had a huge change between the first ~10-15 shaves - feels like a different brush. And I have read that both Simpson Manchurian and Shavemac D01 2 band change a lot during the first month or so. Maybe @Nightguard could elaborate on that, since he got a new Simpson Manchurian?
And in my humble experience with boars (but that has been with only ~10 brushes from Omega and Semogue): they produce very poor lather at first. I always needed at least 5 palm lathers to get a decent result and ~1 month to have a pleasant feeling on my face, with the exception of the SOC, which was very early on pleasant on the face.
As always: YMMV (or whatever we call it here)
The problem with loft is the glue bump, which can make for a very different feel...I would highly recommend these 2 articles by Ken from Paladin:
https://www.paladinshaving.com/page...y-nomenclature-and-a-little-bit-of-philosophy
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/484134-Brushology-On-Loft
Nightguard
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2013
Knot and loft really does come down to preference. Personally I like dense knots with a low loft, very similar to @Lifes a Peach 2:1 suggestion. Hair type is very subjective, there is no standardization at all, personally I really like Simpsons Best grade, it's soft and has decent backbone even in higher lofted models.
As to break in, badgers do have a break in period IMO. How long and how much depends on the hair used. My M7 Manchurian took a little while to fully break in, it had a small amount of scritch to start with but now just feels soft but with great backbone.
As to break in, badgers do have a break in period IMO. How long and how much depends on the hair used. My M7 Manchurian took a little while to fully break in, it had a small amount of scritch to start with but now just feels soft but with great backbone.
I have used a large brush for the majority of my fair-dunkum wet shaving time. By large I mean:
Overall height: 100mm
- Loft: 50mm
- Knot: 28mm
- Base: 50mm
I have only used brushes labeled as Best Badger, Silvertip Badger, and Super Badger. @Drubbing is spot on regarding Badger grades; different manufacturers have different standards, and some Best Badger brushes have a knot of higher quality than others' Silvertip knots.
I have not yet tried Boar or Synthetic brushes, but certainly do not disregard them. Just haven't got around to it (yet).
Overall height: 100mm
- Loft: 50mm
- Knot: 28mm
- Base: 50mm
I have only used brushes labeled as Best Badger, Silvertip Badger, and Super Badger. @Drubbing is spot on regarding Badger grades; different manufacturers have different standards, and some Best Badger brushes have a knot of higher quality than others' Silvertip knots.
I have not yet tried Boar or Synthetic brushes, but certainly do not disregard them. Just haven't got around to it (yet).