Badger brushes and BLM - potentially contentious subject

Gargravarr

Gargravarr

Our resident snake charmer
Joined
Jun 13, 2020
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lutruwita
This topic might be like the elephant in the room on a shaving forum, but I hope we're grown-up enough here to keep the discussion flame-free.

Once upon a time (long, long ago) I was naïve enough to think a badger brush could be made by giving a badger a shave, then sending him off on his way to be laughed at by all his friends and relations. Now most of us are aware they are snared in China (Manchuria in marketing-speak) and/or kept in small pens and killed brutally.

How do wet shavers reconcile this with their expectations of humane treatment of animals? Do we just not think about the ethical treatment of badgers, or do we feel the end justifies the means in our pursuit of perfection in sybaritic comfort? Our boar brushes are harvested from a by-product of a fairly strictly regulated meat industry, so they probably aren't relevant here, but our synthetic brushes keep getting better every year, and many (myself included) would argue that they get the job done at least as well as badger brushes.

I have carefully avoided proselytising in favour of synthetic brushes on this forum or elsewhere, but how about we get the subject out in the open?
 
I resisted the urges to try a badger brush for many years for ethical reasons but came to the conclusion that as repulsive and inhumane it is I had to try a badger knot and now own a handful of knots that provide a different shaving experience.
I can respect others moving away from natural hair, primarily badger and for good reasons but I do my best to buy from reputable sources and a little piece of me hopes practices have changed with growing awareness that cruelty won't be tolerated...
I started traditional wet shaving as carts were costing a fortune and massive concerns over recycling and as much as synthetic knots have evolved to the stage where many match natural fibres for feel/appearance, I can't but help having concerns over the environmental impacts plastics are having on our planet and how many of our synthetic knots are actually recyclable...?
 
I've bought my last badger brush for this reason.

I've also bought my last boar brush because they all eventually start shedding / breaking bristles. Takes years and I still expect to get a decade of use out of them - but my badgers and synthetics will last longer than that if properly treated.

So synthetics it is - yes they are plastic but they can and do last for decades without shedding. There is no need to dispose of them for many years. They are also a lot more economical on soap to boot. The performance is fine for me as well - different to badger but not inferior if used in a way that plays to its strengths. Oh - and they cost a lot less too... and the health of my bank balance is also important to me.
 
The short answer is, for me at least, it can't be reconciled. Badgers aren't raised just for their hair. AFAIK, it's a meat produce livestock and the hairs procured is a by-product of production. It's up to the market of badger consumers in China (the main market) to enforce stricter and more humane practices for badgers. Purchasing higher quality hair brushes hopefully will be my very very small part in sending the message out that a humanely kept animal will product better quality pelt than one that is mistreated. I don't buy crappy ebay/amazon badger specials with trimmed hair made from low grade (and potentially mistreated) badger, but until there is a viable alternative to Chinese sourced hair, it's just something I'll have to live with.

I've used the best available synthetics on the market. I can whip up a fantastic lather with less soap and have a great shave, no problem. But it doesn't feel like badger on the face and none of the attempts made by the synthetic market to make a badger clone has been successful. I've said before, synths should be treated as their own specific fibre, as distinct as badger, boar or horse and judged on their own merit and not by how close (or not) they feel to real badger.
 
I too have gone with synthetic brushes because I was uncomfortable about the ethics involved in the badger trade.

Interestingly, the Scottish shaving shop "Executive Shaving Company" have done away with selling badger brushes because of the way the badgers are farmed for their fur. The guy that runs the business has downloaded a YouTube video where he talks about the badger brushes.
cheers
Andrew
 
I have all 3 types of brush and had never given it a second thought, until last year. I bought a FS best Badger brush and waved it at my daughter's face, she recoiled and wasn't happy knowing it was badger. Apparently they don't get a hair cut, who knew. I find badgers to be slightly adorable, apart from the ferocious and cantankerous nature; we all have faults.

I saw a synthetic brush for $6 at Woolies and bought it to try one. I had heard they no longer were like tooth brushes. OK I'll try almost anything. I immediately liked it and wonder what an expensive one has to offer. I'm no longer interested in badger or boar.

I'm guessing it will last for years as it doesn't seem to shed. It's also splash and go and dries quick! Maybe it's plastic and bad for the environment (as little) but it's probably the lesser of two evils.
 
Why don’t you guys cut your own human hair and make your own shaving brushes.

You guys have hairs everywhere on your own body, for goodness sake, please, stay away from your own bum, otherwise you’ll smell like human manure.

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I think it’s a good discussion to have.

I use the SHD two band badger knot from Maggard Razors, and I absolutely love it. It’s actually the only badger knot I have ever tried, but it’s a total endgame for me. It’s is from China and has a price point of $46 USD (for a 24mm). That’s neither cheap or expensive, rather I think in today’s consumer world, a fair price for a quality product, that - very importantly - will last a long time and will be very appreciated. Also, Maggard Razors is a well-respected and popular company in the wetshaving industry, and I trust them a lot.

If you are going to kill an animal - don’t let it go to waste. If it wasn’t for badger brush products, the animal would have been simply been killed for the meat alone, and the rest thrown away.

If badgers were considered an endangered species, I would of course have thought differently.
 
Straight up said:
I saw a synthetic brush for $6 at Woolies and bought it to try one. I had heard they no longer were like tooth brushes. OK I'll try almost anything. I immediately liked it and wonder what an expensive one has to offer. I'm no longer interested in badger or boar.
Click to expand...

I bought that JTB brush for the same price $6. Boy, does it punch above its weight! I'd compare it favourably against any plisson variant that's 3x the price.
 
When I saw this thread I confess I anticipated that it would go off the rails - congrats to all concerned here that it hasn't.

For what it is worth, Mr.Philip Watterson, former Managing Director, Progress Shaving Brush (Vulfix) Ltd (which "merged" with Simpson) is quoted here as follows -

"Badger hair is imported from China. British, American and Canadian Badger are of no interest to brush manufacturers and cannot be connected with today's limited trade. China being the main export of Badger hair does so with very strict control on the amount exported each year, clearly displaying their awareness of environmental conservation. The Badger population is carefully monitored avoiding any decrease in its numbers. (It should be remembered that the badger is a source of meat to the Chinese people and is available in the markets). Chinese Badger are collected from the wild and are not in contravention of the Washington Treaty of Endangered Species."

"This has been an industry for the people of China for hundreds of years and it should be remembered that an increase in the Badger population would quickly be regarded as vermin and a pest to agriculture. The high prices paid for Badger hair, its removal being a costly operation, means that any significant growth predicted in its demand has little foundation. Such an expensive product will never be part of the mainstream fashion boom. Britain, Europe and America all operate very strict import controls ensuring that any Badger hair brought into these countries is done so with all legislative agreements being strictly adhered to. The ecologists in both the exporting and importing communities of Badger hair have created a system preserving the Badger, an important source of livelihood for hundreds of years in the Far East and ensuring that a small market does exist, creating valuable work in an industry which dates back to the time when wet shaving was first recorded."​
 
A response from Shavemac in this post from a discussion elsewhere (video referred to in this post and allegedly not a badger) -

Hello Jeremy,

I am sorry for the delay with my reply.
I had to wait till my German supplier has got massage from the agents in China.
Shavemac does not buy directly in China, we always buy form the German importer.

Here is what I have got as answer.
____________________________

I showed the video clip to a couple of Chinese suppliers and they were also rather shocked to see this and do not believe this to be common practice -
in fact they claim it to be from raccoon farms.
Badgers are normally caught in the wild and killed there before being taken to the markets where they are then skinned -
the meat is then sold to restaurants and skins sold to fur dealers.
_______________________________________________________

The question is: Can we belief that?

As we all know, we hardly get any proofed information what happens in China or not.
To find a position what we can belief or not we can make some statements and check them on its plausibility.

There is no reason for the fur industries to work so ineffective.
If you must skin hundreds of animals you have no time to make this extra effort and skin it while the animal is alive.
Kill the animal and then skin it is more effective and more economical.

You can not domestic badgers.
No question that all the raccoons, dogs, martens ... are raised in a barbaric way on the farms.
But I think you can not raise a badger in this way. The badger is a raw wild animal.
In my opinion it is more likely the the badger are hunted than raised up in a small cage.

The badger is a much more dangerous animal.
If someone tries to skin a badger while it is alive he could not do this so easily as we saw in the video.
The badger is much bigger than the raccoon, much more aggressive and much more powerful.
I think you need two persons to control a badger.

Meat from tortured animals is second quality meat.
All the stress the animal suffers till it is dead will have an effect what substances in the meat are.
If the meat is sold to restaurants the meat must be in good quality and not full of stress substances.

Considering the few points above I think there is no real reason to skin badgers before the are dead.

After watching the video it seems to me that the scene happens in a public place in a small town somewhere in the wide land of China.
No one seems to be disturbed by the skinning of the animals. I got the impression that there are areas in China this may be usual practice.
This is most cruel, but not so surprising [ Note: I have deleted the rest of this sentence -Jeremy ]

What Shavemac can do, to help changing this situation.

We have sent the video to our supplier and told him that we are considering this matter very serious.
He must guarantee that the info he has given is true and will be true in future.

We get offerings from China badger suppliers nearly every month.
They all will get the video first and should make a statement before we have any further discussion.
Only if we let them know that we do not accept this can bring any change of the situation.


What Shavemac NOT can do.

We can not waive on badger hairs. There is no alternative for badger hairs for good shaving brushes.
Synthetics are not really a good alternative.

We can not stop this barbaric method of skinning animals. If we had the force for this we had done it yesterday.
As hard as it may sound we need a lot of patience. Only the contact with the western world and the increase
of the economical level of the Chinese can bring a change in that matter.

Jeremy, I am not very happy that I could not give you more evidentiary and conclusive arguments regarding this matter.

If their is any chance for a change for this animals I would be happy to support it.

Best Regards.
Bernd Blos
 
There was also a brush maker who posted in a discussion I cannot find (and I note that a link "elsewhere" to a thread on the topic ends in an error - maybe that is where I read it) who indicated (claimed) that he was/had travelled to China to look at the process used by his supplier of hair to confirm the "humane" killing of the badgers. He indicated that he only used that supplier and paid more than he could elsewhere to ensure that "ethical" supply chain.

Obviously an impossible to verify claim and one that I cannot even locate at present.

I should also mention that if you have concerns about badger brushes there is a nice little synthetic in the B/S/T.
 
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Very informative information @Mark1966 and great discussion from the guys. (y) Its hard to begrudge anybody who is against using badger brushes but I hold high hopes that my knots have come from trusted sources in China as all my brushes have been purchased from reliable vendors/artisans... :nailbiting:
Maybe its time to ditch the badgers and get some more boars...? :X3:
 
Thanks guys for keeping the discussion free of flames... :)

Bicep123 said:
I bought that JTB brush for the same price $6. Boy, does it punch above its weight! I'd compare it favourably against any plisson variant that's 3x the price.
Click to expand...

One of these days I mean to try one of those JTB brushes. All of my brushes are now synthetic, with some better than others. I gave my RR Plissoft to my wife to use as a paintbrush a few months back, since it doesn't stack up too well against more recent knots such as Tuxedo, Snow Leopard etc. And I have yet to try the new G4 knots. Nice to have something to look forward to. I think we're now at a stage where there's a whole lot of enjoyment to be had in exploring the different synthetics.
 
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