Ingredient: tallow

Lego

Lego

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Joined
May 5, 2017
Location
Sydney
After examining the ingredients in Cella shaving soap, I stumbled on tallow. A quick google search tells me that it is derived from animal fat:

(wiki)
Tallow is a rendered form of beef or mutton fat, processed from suet...

Sounds pretty gross to be rubbing animal fat on ones face? I've parked it for now, and picked up a pot of proraso, which doesn't contain tallow.
 
There's plenty of people here who won't use a soap if it does not contain tallow. The process to make soap is a chemical reaction between the fats/oils and the acids which changes the composition of the two compounds. So you're not really rubbing animal fat on your face. But it is obviously an animal product, and some people are sensitive to using animal based products. Cella is a good soap, as is Proraso, especially for mass produced soap. As always with anything in this caper different strokes for different folks... (y)
 
if you don't want it because it contains tallow and you are iffy on the whole thing have a look at Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements. in my opinion some of the best soaps on the market and 100% Vegan. their new line is high in Shea Butter leaves u sooooo soft and smooth
 
Thanks @Normie - I was aware of saponification, but I wasn't aware that there are staunch tallow-only shavers.

@the_shaving_sailor i had a quick squiz at the Phoenix Artisan Accroutrements website. What's the best way to buy - direct, or is there an Australian agent.
 
Now I really didn't want to reply to this thread as it usually opens a can of worms...but comments like "some of the best soaps on the market" make me REALLY nervous.

What I am about to write is not based on any scientific research - but only on personal observation over the years:

I think, that saponified tallow (ie tallow that has been reacted with a base such as Sodium or Potassium Hydroxide) helps to stabilise the water in your lather.

What does this mean for you: Lather with a high water content usually means better glide - while lather with a high air content means the opposite. Those tiny and large air bubbles pop and stop your razor. Water and soap on the other hand produce a tiny film, that makes your razor glide better over your face.

In my experience non-animal fat soaps often cannot take that much water - ie the lather collapses, when you add more water. While this might not be a big issues for the glide, you loose the protection or cushion of the lather - the 2nd most important property of a good shaving lather.

Tallow (and other animal fats) somehow stabilise the water content in your lather - enhancing the glide without loosing the protective properties.

Now this is of course only true for a well formulated soap. Many soap makers add tallow/animal fat just to have it on the label, but the content is too low/wrong and you do not get the desired benefits. The main content of these soaps (stearic acid) is much cheaper than tallow

Similarly other soap makers try to emulate tallow properties by mixing other (non animal) fats into the soap.

HOWEVER: tallow is still A LOT cheaper in comparison to exotic fats like shea butter.

What is the bottom line: Without fantastic lather, there is no good shave and tallow soaps are in my experience still the cheapest ones producing fantastic lather.

If you eat animal meat - tallow soap IMO is a fantastic product, so that less of the animal goes to waste. As are secondary cuts, bones for broth, leather products...we want to use as much of the animal as possible, don't we?

If you are vegetarian/vegan: as long as others eat meat - you do the world a service by using their waste product (tallow) for your soap - no palm tree plantations, less chemical plants for stearic acid production...

If you are 100% opposed to using animal products: please think, before falling for lines like: now with shea butter. Do a quick research and you will find, that if any one wants to use shea butter INSTEAD of tallow, the soap would most likely cost 50$ or more a puck. The addition of 0.5% shea butter to a soap does not substitute for the lack of tallow.

There are some decent vegetarian soaps out there...but you are missing out on some of the REAL best soaps on the market :D :D :D
 
I dont have the experience of alot of people here but the soaps i tend to get most excited about using and get the best performance out of contain tallow. I kind of work with tallow all day and I eat meat multiple times a week so I am 100% with @alfredus about using as much of the animal as possible. If you are avoiding tallow soaps because you want to save animals, its really not going to make a difference.
 
alfredus said:
Now I really didn't want to reply to this thread as it usually opens a can of worms...but comments like "some of the best soaps on the market" make me REALLY nervous.

What I am about to write is not based on any scientific research - but only on personal observation over the years:

I think, that saponified tallow (ie tallow that has been reacted with a base such as Sodium or Potassium Hydroxide) helps to stabilise the water in your lather.

What does this mean for you: Lather with a high water content usually means better glide - while lather with a high air content means the opposite. Those tiny and large air bubbles pop and stop your razor. Water and soap on the other hand produce a tiny film, that makes your razor glide better over your face.

In my experience non-animal fat soaps often cannot take that much water - ie the lather collapses, when you add more water. While this might not be a big issues for the glide, you loose the protection or cushion of the lather - the 2nd most important property of a good shaving lather.

Tallow (and other animal fats) somehow stabilise the water content in your lather - enhancing the glide without loosing the protective properties.

Now this is of course only true for a well formulated soap. Many soap makers add tallow/animal fat just to have it on the label, but the content is too low/wrong and you do not get the desired benefits. The main content of these soaps (stearic acid) is much cheaper than tallow

Similarly other soap makers try to emulate tallow properties by mixing other (non animal) fats into the soap.

HOWEVER: tallow is still A LOT cheaper in comparison to exotic fats like shea butter.

What is the bottom line: Without fantastic lather, there is no good shave and tallow soaps are in my experience still the cheapest ones producing fantastic lather.

If you eat animal meat - tallow soap IMO is a fantastic product, so that less of the animal goes to waste. As are secondary cuts, bones for broth, leather products...we want to use as much of the animal as possible, don't we?

If you are vegetarian/vegan: as long as others eat meat - you do the world a service by using their waste product (tallow) for your soap - no palm tree plantations, less chemical plants for stearic acid production...

If you are 100% opposed to using animal products: please think, before falling for lines like: now with shea butter. Do a quick research and you will find, that if any one wants to use shea butter INSTEAD of tallow, the soap would most likely cost 50$ or more a puck. The addition of 0.5% shea butter to a soap does not substitute for the lack of tallow.

There are some decent vegetarian soaps out there...but you are missing out on some of the REAL best soaps on the market :D :D :D
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What he said.

The majority of my "go to" soaps contain tallow (Mystic Waters, Stirling, Mikes). I do however find that there are some vegan (non-tallow) soaps that perform very well for me. PAA is one of them (I have not used the very latest formula) although I have to agree that I would not expect there to be a huge percentage of Shea butter in the soap. PAA tends to include a mix of ingredients that are known for their skin cleansing and conditioning properties and this is why you get a good post shave feel. I also like Caties Bubbles which is a Vegan soap and I am particularly fond of their French style line (I am not sure if it is still being made). I am able to get a decent amount of water in to both the PAA and Caties Bubbles soaps and find that I can build a stable and good lather as well.

All of that being said Tallow soaps (properly made ones) do take a lot more water and can often provide a creamier thicker lather (this is where the more protective component comes in). Post shave feel with Tallow soap is also generally very good as well and often does not require all of the extra ingredients to provide this.
 
alfredus said:
Now I really didn't want to reply to this thread as it usually opens a can of worms...but comments like "some of the best soaps on the market" make me REALLY nervous.

What I am about to write is not based on any scientific research - but only on personal observation over the years:

I think, that saponified tallow (ie tallow that has been reacted with a base such as Sodium or Potassium Hydroxide) helps to stabilise the water in your lather.

What does this mean for you: Lather with a high water content usually means better glide - while lather with a high air content means the opposite. Those tiny and large air bubbles pop and stop your razor. Water and soap on the other hand produce a tiny film, that makes your razor glide better over your face.

In my experience non-animal fat soaps often cannot take that much water - ie the lather collapses, when you add more water. While this might not be a big issues for the glide, you loose the protection or cushion of the lather - the 2nd most important property of a good shaving lather.

Tallow (and other animal fats) somehow stabilise the water content in your lather - enhancing the glide without loosing the protective properties.

Now this is of course only true for a well formulated soap. Many soap makers add tallow/animal fat just to have it on the label, but the content is too low/wrong and you do not get the desired benefits. The main content of these soaps (stearic acid) is much cheaper than tallow

Similarly other soap makers try to emulate tallow properties by mixing other (non animal) fats into the soap.

HOWEVER: tallow is still A LOT cheaper in comparison to exotic fats like shea butter.

What is the bottom line: Without fantastic lather, there is no good shave and tallow soaps are in my experience still the cheapest ones producing fantastic lather.

If you eat animal meat - tallow soap IMO is a fantastic product, so that less of the animal goes to waste. As are secondary cuts, bones for broth, leather products...we want to use as much of the animal as possible, don't we?

If you are vegetarian/vegan: as long as others eat meat - you do the world a service by using their waste product (tallow) for your soap - no palm tree plantations, less chemical plants for stearic acid production...

If you are 100% opposed to using animal products: please think, before falling for lines like: now with shea butter. Do a quick research and you will find, that if any one wants to use shea butter INSTEAD of tallow, the soap would most likely cost 50$ or more a puck. The addition of 0.5% shea butter to a soap does not substitute for the lack of tallow.

There are some decent vegetarian soaps out there...but you are missing out on some of the REAL best soaps on the market :D :D :D
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+1 @alfredus - very well put.(y)
 
Itsonlyblood said:
I dont have the experience of alot of people here but the soaps i tend to get most excited about using and get the best performance out of contain tallow. I kind of work with tallow all day and I eat meat multiple times a week so I am 100% with @alfredus about using as much of the animal as possible. If you are avoiding tallow soaps because you want to save animals, its really not going to make a difference.
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Now send me some of those 3 month dry aged tomahawk steaks :D :D :D
 
PannaCrema Nuavia is by far the best non-tallow soap I've used and to be honest it's better than a lot of the tallow I've used too. The composition of the scent on the Rossa is superb to boot.
 
UKSteve said:
PannaCrema Nuavia is by far the best non-tallow soap I've used and to be honest it's better than a lot of the tallow I've used too. The composition of the scent on the Rossa is superb to boot.
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I suspect you may regret stating that openly ;)
Sydney fella's, roll up!
 
alfredus said:
I have been known to travel for food...and I am pretty serious about this :D
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Im by most accounts a pretty laid back guy, but im very serious about meat. I dont order it at restaurants anymore because I bring better meat home from work, also, we tend to supply most of the places that I would go to eat meat. When you decide to travel, let me know and ill get the food (y)
 
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