Private Reserve - DIY Aftershave Splash Project

[filobiblic]

Thanks for a (lengthy!) reply. I think I must have struck a chord with you...

Now I am not attacking any producer or artisan specifically, I am simply presenting information based on my own reading and research and further expanding on an area with data that Phil so kindly initiated in the spirit of knowledge, learning and open discussion. Before anyone gets the pitch-fork brigade onto me, please at least consider my motives and remember that I will quite proudly stand behind my intentions and the information I have posted.

Most who read will assume you have the best interests at heart, and those who don't probably won't have read what you said!

I think that most don't really understand the origins or differences in fragrances in their aftershaves. And most wouldn't be able to tell the difference in scents that FO and EO produce. I know I'm not really gifted in that area. I simply have smelt a whole lot of scents and know what really stands out...

What you seem to be saying is that there are EOs and there are the "real" EOs (with price being the determining factor).I can understand that there wouldn't be a lot of forthcoming of this kind of information amongst artisans as clearly it's where the significant cost of the product comes in. To skimp in this area is to raise your profit margin quite a bit...

I've linked to this video before, but -for all that people say about him- this Artisan clearly enjoys the process of making and mixing scents.

Another artisan (from Europe) -if you ask him- will tell you that the price differences in his produce (some significant) are due to the expense of the Essential Oils he uses. And I can tell you that the scents are absolutely sublime and stand out above others.

 

[todras]

God Crikey @todras you're giving me a painful long bloody read are you trying to kill my eye balls and I almost fell read through the whole bed time story well only about 60% so far I've read and I can't keep up

I can only apologize for the length, I should have inserted my apology after this weeks text. The subject matter demands technical language to convey complex ideas in such a way that does not appear prejudicial or pejorative and tries to simplify aspects of chemistry of which I have no training. I avoided the more technical stuff until now for this very reason - boring people to death and mountains of text!

You can read it if you want in two parts: The first part is about Essential Oils and fragrance oils, their cost and method of extraction.

The second part that beings with 'So what??, What is it exactly you are trying to say or impart here ?' is about exploring this quote from Phil:

I also now know why I appreciate the wonderful scents that the real artisans work hard to produce. So that means I understand it when there are different prices for different products made by the one person. It means they are using fair dinkum EO's and natural oils for their products. I get it that some would baulk over paying high prices for what is essentially just a smell. But when you breathe in the intoxicating scent of beautiful rich oils that are blended to perfection then... wow! For me, it adds a different dimension to a shave.

It is not written, in any sense from the perspective of a Lawyer, that would imply or impart that there is legal risk or reckless acts or things where there are not.

It is written in a certain way to examine commerciality, personal choice and ethics in relation to artisan producers and their products. That is the TLDR in one sentence.

The only exception possibly is of my admitting that I have deliberately not disclosed certain concepts or ideas solely because I am not an asshole intent on wrecking small wet-shaving concerns. There is no legal risk, concern or otherwise in my doing so or my language, let's be 100% clear about that right now.

 

[alfredus]

Another great write-up @todras and your explanations are fantastic

For me personally, steam distilled products are perfectly fine, as the biggest impurity would be the solvent - water. I can live with that. All other impurities are from the plant itself - again I can live with that. The EO might have even a more complex scent, due to the plant impurities...

I would even argue, that having to choose between CO2 derived EO's from non-organic farmed sources and steam distilled EO's from organic farmed sources, I would chose the later, as it also eliminates the possibility for pesticide contaminations.

I also absolutely agree, that killing animals, just for musk is...well simply crazy.

 

[todras]

Thanks for a (lengthy!) reply. I think I must have struck a chord with you...

I think more simply you introduced an idea that I had considered making a weekly post on and actually had already written and saved ready to post already.,

Prior to you posting I decided against it due mostly to the technical language and 'wall of text' required to even impart the chemical information/processes in a basic and accurate way and my figuring that it was really not absolutely necessary to know if you want to make a home made splash.

I am glad you posted the comments and ideas in the rest of your post too, I found them most interesting with the exclusion of the video itself, which I am yet to watch

 

[todras]

Another great write-up @todras and your explanations are fantastic

Phew!

I would even argue, that having to choose between CO2 derived EO's from non-organic farmed sources and steam distilled EO's from organic farmed sources, I would chose the later, as it also eliminates the possibility for pesticide contaminations.

Oh I deliberately did not go into the organic versus non organic farmed sources due to complexity. It would take a chemist to raise such a complicated issue

In short, accredited organic farmed sources add significantly to the costs as you know. I know this now first hand having spend an extra $400 - $700 I estimate or so all up on organic essential oils for some of my experiments

My favourite two examples from personal experience, of course Jasmine and Rose Otto are two of the most expensive EO's anyway..

Jasmine Oil Absolute (Jasminium Sambac) 5ml $99.00
Jasmine Oil Absolute (Jasminium Sambac) ACO & USDA Certified organic 5ml $165.30
Rose Otto Absolute (Bulgaria) 5ml $287.10
Rose Otto Absolute (Bulgaria) ACO & USDA Certified organic 5ml $340.00

 

[Snooze]

Thanks for a (lengthy!) reply. I think I must have struck a chord with you...



Most who read will assume you have the best interests at heart, and those who don't probably won't have read what you said!

I think that most don't really understand the origins or differences in fragrances in their aftershaves. And most wouldn't be able to tell the difference in scents that FO and EO produce. I know I'm not really gifted in that area. I simply have smelt a whole lot of scents and know what really stands out...

What you seem to be saying is that there are EOs and there are the "real" EOs (with price being the determining factor).I can understand that there wouldn't be a lot of forthcoming of this kind of information amongst artisans as clearly it's where the significant cost of the product comes in. To skimp in this area is to raise your profit margin quite a bit...

I've linked to this video before, but -for all that people say about him- this Artisan clearly enjoys the process of making and mixing scents.

Another artisan (from Europe) -if you ask him- will tell you that the price differences in his produce (some significant) are due to the expense of the Essential Oils he uses. And I can tell you that the scents are absolutely sublime and stand out above others.

I agree 100% with @filobiblic - I for one didn't really understand about the different types of EO and FO used in fragrances - but like everything else in life, you get what you pay for and quality usually costs more.
I watched the video from Douglas last time you posted it - I must say I find it difficult to believe he distills his own EO to use in his products - it doesn't seem to be commercially viable and he may have just been using it as a demonstration for the video.

 

[Snooze]

Thank you for raising this important and very interesting issue @filobiblic , you are quite correct of course. There are different 'types' of EO's however, being that the methods of extraction and resultant purity vary - the common factor they all share is expense generally speaking and this expense is based on the cost of the organic material used to produce the EO, the scarcity of that material and the percentage of volatile compounds the organic material contains initially.

For example take Musk EO, Musk can be obtained from the killing of various animals and obtained in minute quantities as a result (this trade is regulated by CITES aka 'The Washington Convention', however a black market flourishes). Consequently musk from animal sources is incredibly scarce and expensive, and quite frankly due to ethical reasons I choose not to use, buy or support this specific form of the essence. Black Market Musk sources exist, and are available to purchase via .onion addresses and marketplaces for those curious. Fortunately they are illegal to procure, import or possess in Australia attracting substantial penalties.

More reasonably priced is Musk EO derived from the Hibiscus Flower seed (Abelmoschus moschatus). So here we have a sustainable, excellent source of musk that does not rely on the torture and killing of animals. For this reason a majority of perfumes (big name ones) use Musk derived from plant sources. That being said, it is still very expensive due to the low amounts the plant produces and the high volume of fresh flowers needed to produce the oil, and the method of extraction. Country of origin and purity generally dictate the still expensive prices.

The 3 methods of EO Extraction
EO extraction methods (I think as a non-chemist) are fairly complex but I will try to expand on the nature of Essential Oils and then Fragrance Oils, their prices and other features and the paradigm. Obviously it is chemistry and I am not a chemist so hopefully @alfredus and @TomG our resident Chemists will jump in and correct my inevitable errors.

1. Cold Pressed EO - This method relies on plants with abundant sources of hydrocarbons, alcohols, ketones - Bergamot, Lemon, etc and as such is relatively cheap. There are grades of EO's of course, the cleanliness and specific methodology dictates purity but I won't go into this, it's bloody complicated.
2. Steam Extracted EO (Distillation) - This method is quite common to those EO's that are expressed in reasonable abundance by the plants/organic materials (Lavender, Patchouli, Peppermint). Flowers, Leaves, bark, wood, etc is placed on a porous tray that sits above a volume of water, the water is heated to produce steam, the steam rises and exits through a cylindrical glass tube to condense, this condensation runs off to a tube. Dependent on the type of material, this process can take anywhere from 2 to 48 hours. It's known as fractional distillation and can be fairly complicated from my reading. The end result can be a liquid OR as I discovered an 'Absolute' which is a mass of crystals with residual solvent. There is also a rarer and now less common Enfleurage method (google) of extraction using fats or lipids but I won't get into this here
   
3. Carbon Dioxide (Sub and Super)critical Carbon Dioxide (C02) Distillation - From what I gather and understand, Carbon Dioxide gas that is very, very cold is used as a 'solvent' and is introduced into a pressurised vessel containing the organic material. It exits the chamber and condenses again, taking with it the desired compounds. This method is reserved for scare or 'tricky' compounds as the yields are quite low and the process takes a long duration however it produces very pure oils. Not unsurprisingly most of the desirable EO's are produced in this way as my bank balance attests!
   
4. Tinctures (Oleoresin) - Not really EO's at all as they contain vast amounts of impurities, chlorophyll etc. In short a quantity of plant material, roots, bark etc is set to rest in a vessel of alcohol or oil and left to steep for 6 months. Vanilla Extract used in cooking is an example. You take 5 or 6 Vanilla pods, slit them down the middle, place in 100mls of alcohol in a sealed container and shake daily. The vanilla seeps into solution along with everything else in the pod. This method produces low concentrations and many impurities and is therefore not used in perfumery.

As an aside, 12% C02 Extracted Vanilla (12%) is $118.00 for 5 grams - this is what we use in perfumes/splashes. Furiously expensive and in part why most wet-shaving splashes/aftershaves use either Oleoresin based Vanilla, or the even cheaper fragrance oil.

So there we are, 3 basic methods described for obtaining essential oils in a very novice (and probably incorrect) terms, I am betting our resident chemists are shuddering, shaking their heads and groaning at my descriptions but there you go

Fragrance Oil
These are compositions made up of Essential Oil components and aromatic chemicals. There are around 4000-5000 approved 'aroma chemicals' available to purchase from my reading, they are combined in weighed quantities and together approximate a fragrance which is sold as so and so scent. This is a simplification of course, chemists work with these compounds to produce ranges of scents that are then branded, labelled and sold to consumers.

Fragrance oils can be essential for perfumers in that there are simply some compounds and scents that are not available as essential oils, many of the most successful and largest brands of perfume available on the market comprise mostly pure essential oils but with the addition of Fragrance oils or compounds to complete the scent, the defining factor is the percentage of Essential Oils to fragrance oils.

So what??, What is it exactly you are trying to say or impart here ?
Well, to be succinct I am trying to say you get what you pay for. The thing to remember I guess is that most 'artisan' aftershave splashes are 3%-5% strength and all sell for around the same price. As I am making aftershave splashes and balms myself and therefore have a bias of sorts in the interests of full disclosure and being honest I will leave people to re-read @filobiblic's last post and what I have posted here and then to draw their own conclusions as to the products they choose to buy and use based on these examples using approximate cost values.

It has to be remembered: Fragrance oils are often used to compliment 'bases' of expensive essential oils for the sole reason that not every scent can be produced as an essential oil. If you are making a simple fragrance say Sandalwood-Bergamot then an artisan will simply use two expensive oils, the same goes for a genuine Fougère and many other historical accords. However, and this is a very salient point, in many of the modern scent accords fragrance oils (well, specific aromatic chemicals more accurately) comprise the original accord. The risk is chucking out the baby with the bath-water when it comes to fragrance oils, but do remember too - an artisan who chooses to use much cheaper (and imho substantially inferior) fragrance oils for a whole accord is doing so for a reason.

Australian Sandalwood Steam-Distilled (Santalum Spicatum) 18ml $75.00
Indian Sandalwood Steam-Distilled (Santalum Album) 18ml $160.00
West Indian Sandalwood Steam-Distilled (amyris spicatum) 18ml $9.00
Sandalwood Fragrance Oil 100ml $12.00

Sandalwood fragrance oil can be bought wholesale at $89 for a litre, cheaper in 5 litres and even cheaper in 10 litres. So I'm sure we can all see where this is going without explicitly stating it.

Conclusion
I was highly reluctant to explore this area, mostly out of apprehension that it would be misconstrued, and to be perfectly frank and honest out of a sense of keeping with the 'group think' that seems to envelope the wet-shaving communities around the globe - we rarely meaningfully criticise, evaluate or comment on 'quality' beyond superficial and often superfluous commentary and high-fives. To evidence this I offer my substantial and extensive searching of several wet-shaving forums around the globe, certainly to the best of my knowledge I could find no meaningful discussion of formulations, essential oil V Fragrance oil issue, quantities or qualities of composition of various solutions(aftershaves) on any of them - I am of course willing to stand corrected if anyone can unearth anything comparable to what I have detailed here.

Now I am not attacking any producer or artisan specifically, I am simply presenting information based on my own reading and research and further expanding on an area with data that Phil so kindly initiated in the spirit of knowledge, learning and open discussion. Before anyone gets the pitch-fork brigade onto me, please at least consider my motives and remember that I will quite proudly stand behind my intentions and the information I have posted.

In concluding the frank and open honesty disclosure I have to admit that in order to protect many commercial interests and many often small vendors who I do not personally know but comprise our wet-shaving 'community', I have withheld information. I feel in posting a lot of what I have learnt and the information I have gathered would cause serious harm to many vendors in the wet-shaving community. The information itself would not assist anyone whatsoever in any shape or form, or by any conception or idea in creating an aftershave I will say outright.

I will leave it there, the chemists among us will no doubt already know where this is going exactly. With a little thinking and reading of this thread most people can deduce the essence of what is withheld. I won't be addressing this again, please don't ask

I hope you enjoyed this weeks under the influence of influenza ramble, as always corrections, comments, advice, compliments or requests for more information or explanation are always welcome. As I mentioned previously, I have now 4 or 5 aftershaves maturing that will be ready in the coming weeks. I have also obtained an excellent commercial base for an aftershave balm and experiments as to quantity of 'base' oils have commenced in that regard. It is my hope to send out samples in a week or so once the suitable containers and equipment arrives to package the items.

Great post @todras - I guess there's Caviar and just plain old fish eggs !! You don't really know what you're missing if you haven't tasted the real deal. I imagine the same applied to EO and FO scents - the depth and complexity of the EO must make the FO seem a washed out version of the real thing.

 

[todras]

I watched the video from Douglas last time you posted it - I must say I find it difficult to believe he distills his own EO to use in his products - it doesn't seem to be commercially viable and he may have just been using it as a demonstration for the video.

I found it quite curious too that he would choose to manufacture a hydrosol (flower water) by such a cumbersome, time consuming method when their cost is amongst the cheapest of all the components of a splash, particularly when working on a commercial scale. He may just really enjoy making small and impractical amounts of solutions that are generally used in fairly generous quantities to mask the smell of perfumers alcohol when you choose not to stand a mixed final solution for 3 weeks to correctly and sufficiently infuse. Either that or it is genuine - it is not for me to say.

I would also be curious to know how he manages to get oil and water to mix without the use of solubilizing agents such as Poly-20 or indeed Poly-80 (due to the compounds he is mixing) as I heard and saw no mention in that video. I'm not a chemist, but from my reading and understanding it is not possible and all of the splashes I have seen from him look perfectly crystal clear with all additives in solution . Maybe it's best we conceptualise the video as 'demonstration vehicle' rather than an accurate demonstration of how he formulates his splashes...

Finally, has been alleged on many occasions (on other forums) that he is dishonest, deceptive and obfuscatory, further that he has either innocently or deliberately mislabelled his products and or contents. Some have even given him the fairly defamatory but none the less hilarious nickname 'Dodgeless' . He does however it should be mentioned have a highly popular, very successful and widely sold range of splashes and soaps that enjoy popular support and patronage in the market place. One would suspect that if the allegations were true his brand would not be as popular or successful as it is...surely ?

Personally, I no longer use any of his products, I am too concerned and conscious of toxicity, undisclosed contents and indeed irregular or unregulated or know concentrations of substances/ingredients/chemicals. My family Dr and the specialist Dermatologist to whom I was referred previously has advised me to be very careful (based on blood panels) that determined my reactions and allergies to certain substances.

 

[filobiblic]

I watched the video from Douglas last time you posted it - I must say I find it difficult to believe he distills his own EO to use in his products - it doesn't seem to be commercially viable and he may have just been using it as a demonstration for the video.

I found it quite curious too that he would choose to manufacture a hydrosol (flower water) by such a cumbersome, time consuming method when their cost is amongst the cheapest of all the components of a splash, particularly when working on a commercial scale. He may just really enjoy making small and impractical amounts of solutions that are generally used in fairly generous quantities to mask the smell of perfumers alcohol when you choose not to stand a mixed final solution for 3 weeks to correctly and sufficiently infuse. Either that or it is genuine - it is not for me to say.

I would also be curious to know how he manages to get oil and water to mix without the use of solubilizing agents such as Poly-20 or indeed Poly-80 (due to the compounds he is mixing) as I heard and saw no mention in that video. I'm not a chemist, but from my reading and understanding it is not possible and all of the splashes I have seen from him look perfectly crystal clear with all additives in solution . Maybe it's best we conceptualise the video as 'demonstration vehicle' rather than an accurate demonstration of how he formulates his splashes...

Totally agree. It's a demonstration of some sorts. I imagine he wouldn't really show you the entire process for -just as you say- it's a trade secret. [emoji6] Also, the distillation of the flower hydrosols is probably the simplest and most visual way to explain his point.

I must confess, I'm a bad skeptic, so I just assume that he's both promoting an understanding of making fragrances in aftershaves, as well as promoting his own products. He is a master of the media and self-promotion really...

I
Personally, I no longer use any of his products, I am too concerned and conscious of toxicity, undisclosed contents and indeed irregular or unregulated or know concentrations of substances/ingredients/chemicals. My family Dr and the specialist Dermatologist to whom I was referred previously has advised me to be very careful (based on blood panels) that determined my reactions and allergies to certain substances.

Understandable. I must say, that the whole wet shaving eco-system is a broad range, and only recently are the new wave of artisans becoming more inline with standards. That being said, it's still self-disclosure and how much you choose to reveal about your materials. So I agree that it's wise to choose who you trust with the products you put to your face. No wonder you're choosing to make your own...

 

[TomG]

Another great write-up @todras and your explanations are fantastic

For me personally, steam distilled products are perfectly fine, as the biggest impurity would be the solvent - water. I can live with that. All other impurities are from the plant itself - again I can live with that. The EO might have even a more complex scent, due to the plant impurities...

I would even argue, that having to choose between CO2 derived EO's from non-organic farmed sources and steam distilled EO's from organic farmed sources, I would chose the later, as it also eliminates the possibility for pesticide contaminations.

I also absolutely agree, that killing animals, just for musk is...well simply crazy.

Totally agree with @alfredus, and yet again another fascinating read, @todras.
Took me back to Uni days using a rotary evaporator/condenser in Organic Chem pracs.

 

[todras]

Understandable. I must say, that the whole wet shaving eco-system is a broad range, and only recently are the new wave of artisans becoming more inline with standards. That being said, it's still self-disclosure and how much you choose to reveal about your materials. So I agree that it's wise to choose who you trust with the products you put to your face. No wonder you're choosing to make your own...

Thanks for rolling with it and letting aspects 'pass through to the keeper' as it were. I'm as sick as the proverbial at the moment and upon re-reading it now I probably used language that was a little too strong, even if the veracity of my statements stand.

I use a lot of artisans splashes and balms and will continue to do so, this is just a hobby/project. I am just a little cautious when there is a known producer on record who has a documented history of 'funny' labelling practices in the past. No big deal at all, I am sure he is upfront and provides full disclosure as to his contents these days.

Totally agree with @alfredus, and yet again another fascinating read, @todras.
Took me back to Uni days using a rotary evaporator/condenser in Organic Chem pracs.

Phew - That's the second chemist happy

I'm glad you are enjoying the thread @TomG, I've found the whole project very interesting and intellectually rewarding. I never thought I would get to play around with glassware, measuring flasks, calculators, formulas etc in my kitchen. I often come back to this thread and re-read what I have written from the first post to the current, to refresh my memory - to spur new ideas and directions and to remind myself how much more I have to and need to learn.

I can tell you that I was so reluctant to expand on the EO extraction and methodology, I had a full page of the EO extraction techniques written out in fairly simple terms, but I thought to myself Bloody hell mate, no one is going to want to read any of this stuff, it's a wall of text that is of little interest or relevance.

I'm having fun with it all, I am certain of that.

 

[alfredus]

The coolest artisans I've encountered are the quiet ones...either you spend your time on social media or you make really cool products...

How many posts have you seen from James (Wolfman), the guys from Timeless, Doug Korn, even Ken from Paladin...compare that to... I will leave it to the individual to fill out the blanks

 

[Normie]

...but I thought to myself Bloody hell mate, no one is going to want to read any of this stuff, it's a wall of text that is of little interest or relevance.

I'm having fun with it all, I am certain of that.

Everything you have posted in this thread has been nothing short of interesting. In fact, it had been wildly informative and quite entertaining. I'm enjoying seeing the weekly updates and very much look forward to the next one!

 

[todras]

Thanks @Normie, genuinely appreciate the feedback mate, thanks also to the others who have posted encouragement here too.

I agree 100% with your last post @alfredus, even though all the artisans you mention there make uber scarce, limited edition brushes that you have to stay up all night for

 

[todras]

Ok, after a lot of thinking and ruminating on accuracy, and the finer points of things I have decided that I'm in for a penny, in for a pound and I will simply have to get a set of electronic scales and approach this with substantially more accuracy. In doing so my formulas will be substantially more exact, fluids are prone to all kinds of effects from my reading, aside from their varying 'thickness', the temperature, etc - it's a minefield of uncontrollable variables I could do without.

If @alfredus, @TomG or @GregP could possibly point me in the direction of a set of suitable scales that I can use to weigh my essential oils and such like, I would be most appreciative. I did some searching however there is a multitude of the things out there. I have no real conception of the price, something in the $120 to $200 range would be nice but it's not an area I know very much about to be frank.

Additionally, I am unsure as to how the practicalities of weighing oils is achieved, to be frank I have little idea other than using a subtractive method where the quantity you have is placed on the scale if the weight of the container/bottle is known, then a quantity is removed until the desired amount is subtracted from what you know exists. I may be way off track here but it is the best I could come up with.

Generally in perfumery at a basic level you work with 3 vials where a known measurement is indicated in keeping with the Base Notes (25% of total fragrance) Heart or middle (50%) and top (25%) therefore 3 vials with obviously different measurements. You presumably weigh each component and add it to the correct vial, in the case of solids or aromatic chemicals I can see how it would be done as one of you kindly mentioned wax paper, but when working with oil I am at a bit of a loss.

What I am somewhat confused about, is the precise practical methodology in weighing the oils themselves, specifically what you put the oils in to determine their weight, and then by what means to you transfer them to the receptacle (50ml amber bottle) that will hold the 'base' oils at the quantity you are working with. i.e I generally make 24mls of pure 'base' oils at a time and therefore use a 50ml bottle, to this I add an exactly equal quantity of polysorb-20 then let the oils marry for a week or so.

Any advice from you fine gents would be appreciated if you have the time to help this home-brew weekend warrior out

 

[TomG]

Ok, after a lot of thinking and ruminating on accuracy, and the finer points of things I have decided that I'm in for a penny, in for a pound and I will simply have to get a set of electronic scales and approach this with substantially more accuracy. In doing so my formulas will be substantially more exact, fluids are prone to all kinds of effects from my reading, aside from their varying 'thickness', the temperature, etc - it's a minefield of uncontrollable variables I could do without.

If @alfredus, @TomG or @GregP could possibly point me in the direction of a set of suitable scales that I can use to weigh my essential oils and such like, I would be most appreciative. I did some searching however there is a multitude of the things out there. I have no real conception of the price, something in the $120 to $200 range would be nice but it's not an area I know very much about to be frank.

Additionally, I am unsure as to how the practicalities of weighing oils is achieved, to be frank I have little idea other than using a subtractive method where the quantity you have is placed on the scale if the weight of the container/bottle is known, then a quantity is removed until the desired amount is subtracted from what you know exists. I may be way off track here but it is the best I could come up with.

Generally in perfumery at a basic level you work with 3 vials where a known measurement is indicated in keeping with the Base Notes (25% of total fragrance) Heart or middle (50%) and top (25%) therefore 3 vials with obviously different measurements. You presumably weigh each component and add it to the correct vial, in the case of solids or aromatic chemicals I can see how it would be done as one of you kindly mentioned wax paper, but when working with oil I am at a bit of a loss.

What I am somewhat confused about, is the precise practical methodology in weighing the oils themselves, specifically what you put the oils in to determine their weight, and then by what means to you transfer them to the receptacle (50ml amber bottle) that will hold the 'base' oils at the quantity you are working with. i.e I generally make 24mls of pure 'base' oils at a time and therefore use a 50ml bottle, to this I add an exactly equal quantity of polysorb-20 then let the oils marry for a week or so.

Any advice from you fine gents would be appreciated if you have the time to help this home-brew weekend warrior out

Hi @todras. @alfredus has previously provided good advice regarding taring your recepticle prior to adding oils. Electronic scales have a mass range and a precision limit. High precision analytical scales are very expensive - I think you'd be best with an open pan style scale. Looking at typical options, I see a small unit with a max capacity of 320 grams and an accuracy of +- 0.001 grams. The larger unit has a max capacity of 3,200 grams and a precision of 0.01 grams.
Vital to the accuracy of the scales is to ensure it is level (typically via use of adjustable mounts), on a stable heavy surface (e.g. Heavy kitchen bench or table), and in an area with minimal drafts/airflow.
The lab scales may prove higher than your budget, unless you can pick one up second-hand. Other options to explore would be less precise but perhaps there are less precise scales (e.g. for food or jewelry) that may do the job.

 

[todras]

Thanks for the response @TomG, I was not thinking as clearly as I should have been. Prior to adding any oil or substance to the bottle containing the base, I will simply weigh it (after taring the scale to remove the weight of the receptacle) in another clean bottle or tube, if it's the weight I require I will transfer it to the base bottle, else I will add or remove until the weight is correct. Simple on reflection, probably a little unnecessary for me to ping you chaps in this regard asking for assistance.

Lab scales are probably not in the picture for financial reasons and to be honest I probably do not need that level of accuracy, I posted in the hope that one of you on the off chance may know of cheaper, but usable models or products. Your info on the capacity and accuracy is very helpful, thanks for that I will use it as a guide.

 

[GregP]

Any advice from you fine gents would be appreciated if you have the time to help this home-brew weekend warrior out

Lab balances (scales) cost a bomb, and I don't know the vendors these days. However...there are some surprisingly cheap jeweller scales that should more than suffice:

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/precision-digital-scale

Now, as long as they are reasonably accurate they should do the job. The main thing is that they are consistent.
You may want to pick up a set of calibration weights to check the accuracy of the scales as well:

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/calibration-weights
Use the tweezers to handle the calibration weights - the oils on your skin will affect the weights.

Be aware that air currents will affect the readings slightly, and are particularly noticeable for the .01 and .001 accurancy levels. You may need some sort of DIY Perspex draft shield over the scale if it is a problem.

 

[todras]

Thanks for the advice, all of you. I think I will go with this due to the price point.

 

[todras]

Mid Week 4 - The Importance of Polysorbate-20 in Aftershave Splashes using Ogallala 'Bay Rum, Lime & Peppercorns' as a demonstration.

I am off today recovering from flu so I thought I would investigate the situation a bit in regard to Ogallala Bay Rum, Lime and Peppercorn Aftershave after I hinted at the problem and another member openly brought it up.

In case you missed the post, when you use this particular splash (that comes in a blue bottle) its fairly evident that you end up with droplets of oil in your hand. The manufacturer also suggests you 'shake the bottle well' which is true for all splashes, but in this case is particularly apt as I will show you.

So as I learned and discussed previously, when mixing oils and water you need to use an solubilizer such as Poly Sorbate-20 otherwise the oil does not enter solution with the alcohol, witchazel and sits at the bottom of the bottle in concentrated form. Quite frankly this may be dangerous as some essential oils in concentration can cause skin irritation and reactions and if they get into your eyes at certain dosages they are toxic (not in this case btw). There are warnings in regard to dilutions for a reason in regard to EO's.

Recap on the need to use Polysorb-20 and how much
Even if you use Fragrance Oils to make your splash, you need Polysorbate 20 as most Fragrance Oils use Jojoba oil to suspend the aromatic chemicals.

Rule of thumb - Equal part Polysorbate-20 to Essential Oils

We start with equal polysorbate-20 to volume of essential oils, some essential oils will require the use of more polysorbate-20 but we start out with equal amounts.

If we are making a 100ml bottle of splash at 5% strength we use 5ml of Essential oils and 5mil of Polysorbate-20 as our starting point.
If we are making a 100ml bottle of splash at 6% strength we use 6ml of Essential oils and 6mil of Polysorbate-20 as our starting point.
If we are making a 200ml bottle of splash at 5% strength we use 10ml of oils and 10mil of Polysorbate-20 as our starting point.
If we are making a 200ml bottle of splash at 6% strength we use 12ml of oils and 12mil of Polysorbate-20 as our starting point.

I hope this is now clear, as we increase volumes of liquids, or strength of oils we equally increase Polysorbate-20.

This sounds like something Chemists made up to sell this Polysorbate 20 stuff, how can you prove all of this ?
Well myself and others have observed the 'oil and water' phenomenon in our bottles of Ogalla Bay Rum, Lime and Peppercorn Aftershave so I will use a bottle of their splash to demonstrate what I am claiming. It also gives me a chance to show off my fancy new glass measuring columns thingo's.

I shook my bottle of Ogallala as instructed and poured 100mls of it into my glass measuring column (bottle of Ogallala for scale )

Now, we can clearly see great big whopping droplets of oil at the bottom and micro droplets floating around in the alcohol, water and witch hazel as per the ingredients on the bottle. It's like someone just mixed oil, water, witch hazel and alcohol then popped it on the shelf because it smells so darn good!

Here is a closer view, it looks like a miniature lava lamp, which would be great if I was so inclined to lava lamps - I'm not btw.

Right, so here we are then in close up - Oil and water together at last!

So it would appear, it may be the case, it could be argued that (you get the gist) either insufficient Polysorbate-20 was used when making my bottle (and many others) of Bay Rum,Lime and Peppercorns OR more simply that for whatever reason none was added when the solution was formulated.

Your guess is as good as mine, I lean towards the possibility that the concentrated oils are sent to Australia and then bottled here with the person bottling them here having absolutely no idea what they were doing or forgetting to add the Polysorbate-20 and therefore having absolutely no idea of what they were doing. The other equally valid scenario is that it is bottled in the USA and the person so doing has no idea what they are doing, or forgot to add the Polysorbate-20 and therefore has no idea what they are doing. As far as I am concerned as a consumer, I'm not really winning all round - the stuff smells fantastic though, I really like it.

Chemistry to the Rescue ?
What better way to demonstrate the need to use Polysorbate 20 than adding some to a quantity of this oil and water solution. But before we do, we need to remember that in adding more liquid to the solution we will be diluting the solution and therefore the strength of the scent.

In the interests of Science and the greater good, I have agreed to dilute 20mls of my lovely Ogallala Bay Rum, Lime and Peppercorns with Polysorbate-20 and have taken a picture of it. As I don't have any pure essential oils (aside from what's sitting at the bottom of the bottle) I cannot compensate for my addition of polysorbate-20 and therefore I dilute by action of addition.

To be absolutely correct and clear I presume that If I had a lab with condensation tubes and the other apparatus and was a chemist I know I could evaporate the whole bottle of alcohol, water, etc off then fraction off the essential oils and start again however that's out of my and most peoples reach.

Here we see the 20ml Volume of Ogallala after the addition of 1ml of Polysorbate-20. As I have no idea whatsoever what percentage of Essential Oils are in the aftershave I start at 1ml of Polysorbate-20, cap and shake the tube and look for signs the solution is clearing up. As we see here, I'm a fair way short of it being 1% strength splash.

Having some experience in these matters (I own 40-50 aftershave splashes) my guess is it will be in the 2.5% to 5% strength range as most are for purely commercial reasons, selling a 4% strength saves you 2ml of very expensive EO's on each 100ml bottle. When you get into the tens of litre range you save substantial sums of money.

A clear solution of aftershave after the addition of 4.5mils of Polysorbate-20, a good shake and a 5 minute wait.


After the addition of 4.5 mils of Polysorbate-20, a nice shake and a 5 minute wait we see a nice clear tube of aftershave demonstrating my original point that it is critical to use Polysorbate-20 or another equivalent solubilizer when mixing alcohol and oils. Wow - fantastic aside from the fact I now have diluted my Aftershave even more. I didn't bother calculating the percentages of how much, but it is simple to do so.

I would like to thank the discipline of Chemistry for making this demonstration possible, if I have made any errors in my descriptions feel free to correct me. I was going to explain how and why Polysorbate-20 works but I didn't want to drop another wall of text. The resident chemists amongst us may be able to explain it much more accurately, concisely and clearly anyway!

For the record I really like Ogallalas splashes and aftershaves, and will keep using them. I may even buy a large jug of the extra concentrated 'Cologne strength' Bay Rum, Lime and Peppercorn aftershave and 'fix it' using this method so I end up with a 5% or 6% aftershave without thick drops of oil and everything in solution.