Boar Density

Sxot

Sxot

New Member
Artisan Producer
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Location
Nth QLD
Continuing on my journey through BAD to Brush Nirvana;

I haven't touched my Semogue 1800 for several months, it is my only boar and was my first decent brush. I moved onto quality badgers - bigger, more dense knots from there. I decided to give the Chubby a rest and grabbed the 1800. First thing that hits me it's barely there at all! I mean the tips are nice and soft, but apply even a little pressure and a great gaping hole opens up in the centre. The Wee Scot has more "on the face" presence than this does! It builds a great lather, and readily gives it up, no worries there but man, I want more density - more tips!

So, I know boars clump, but is this brush indicative of boars? Is there a "chubby" of the boar world. Boars are known for their backbone, and it is there but all that does is leave you on the sides of the bristles when a little pressure is applied. The ample backbone does not allow the bristles to bend leaving the tips on your face. The SOC is highly rated... what is it's density like compared to 1800.

Great brush... but not for me. I have Vintage badger that has very little backbone and I would rather use it than the 1800 because at the end of the day, on both a soft touch is required but I have more density (tsi - tips per square inch) on my face with the badger.

I think this finally puts the nail in the coffin for Boars for me...
 
Interesting Sxot, i have the Semogue 620 and it does leave a big hole in the centre of the brush, saying that though i love the way it lathers, it is not my Savile Row but it still does a great job with what i think is the perfect amount of backbone. If i could get the 620 backbone in a decent badger i would be quite happy. I wonder if the 1305 or the 830 which are kind of Semogue flagships share the same qualities as the others in the range.
 
I think the whole boars have most backbone mantra is a bit of a myth and misinformation.

Sure if you compare a boar to a floppy cheap "silvertip" - a boar has more backbone.

But try a dense (think Epsilon, Chubby) or thick (think Envy White, Shavemac DO1, Simpson Manchurian) badger and you realise @Sxot is absolute on the money.

Apparently even the lower set Zenith boars you can find on the bay become, after they are broken in, floppy...
 
I think you are right, my Savile Row is outstanding, however, my boar is good for face lather, certainly better than my Synths. Each to there own i suppose, i do love my Savile Row.
 
Sxot said:
The SOC is highly rated... what is it's density like compared to 1800.
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You answered your own question in your post when you stated:
Sxot said:
It builds a great lather, and readily gives it up, no worries there but man, I want more density - more tips!
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SOC is a good brush, don't get me wrong, just not for me. It creates a brilliant lather, but it does lack the 'presence' of a dense badger.
 
Cool. Thanks for the confirmation...

@alfredus It depends on how you want to define backbone. The bristles in the 1800 are stiffer, less easily bent than any badger. Doing a bend test will show the boar having more backbone. So if you are talking "stiffness", a (this) boar has it in spades. If however you are talking about the ability to apply some pressure to the brush AND keep the tips on your face at the same time then that is something different and this brush at least, does not have it.
 
I consider aspects beyond brush density.

I find a even a "floppy" boar (a broken in 55mm lofted Semogue) gives me a better scrub (NOT scritch) than a badger.
Even when compared to the scrubby Simpsons Best badger grade, the boar has a great scrub.

The creaminess of the lather from a boar IME is far superior to a badger.

Synths IME are glorified make-up brushes. They do load very easily and the lather is good but there's no scrub at all, even compared to badger. Good for travel due to drying fast and not absorbing water like natural bristles.

I have an older TGN 2 band finest which is the scrubbiest badger I've ever used (tips are scrubby and the loft is just 48mm). I really enjoy it but again, doesn't compare to the scrub of a boar.

The only boars I sold due to being too floppy were the Omega 31064 (with the beautiful acrylic handle) and the Semogue 830.

My Semogue Cerda LE brush is the pinnacle of boar brushes! It's 24mm/50mm and super dense! There's zero flop even when totally soaked and lathers like a beast.
The rest of my boars (Semogue, Omega and Zenith) are just for variety.
 
Some people don't want scrub, they want good lather without it. Can't say I get any better shave from scrubbing my beard than getting a slick lather.
 
Drubbing said:
Some people don't want scrub, they want good lather without it. Can't say I get any better shave from scrubbing my beard than getting a slick lather.
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Ceteris paribus...the scrubbing helps soften my stubble more than badger and synth.

The slickness...that's never lacking with any boar. In fact, I find the more I work the brush on the face (in order to get a good scrub), the lather thickens up and as I add water, it becomes super slick without thinning out.
 
nav1 said:
I consider aspects beyond brush density.

I find a even a "floppy" boar (a broken in 55mm lofted Semogue) gives me a better scrub (NOT scritch) than a badger.
Even when compared to the scrubby Simpsons Best badger grade, the boar has a great scrub.

The creaminess of the lather from a boar IME is far superior to a badger.

Synths IME are glorified make-up brushes. They do load very easily and the lather is good but there's no scrub at all, even compared to badger. Good for travel due to drying fast and not absorbing water like natural bristles.

I have an older TGN 2 band finest which is the scrubbiest badger I've ever used (tips are scrubby and the loft is just 48mm). I really enjoy it but again, doesn't compare to the scrub of a boar.

The only boars I sold due to being too floppy were the Omega 31064 (with the beautiful acrylic handle) and the Semogue 830.

My Semogue Cerda LE brush is the pinnacle of boar brushes! It's 24mm/50mm and super dense! There's zero flop even when totally soaked and lathers like a beast.
The rest of my boars (Semogue, Omega and Zenith) are just for variety.
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Well actually it was after going for a bit of scrub that I found the failings of this brush. Trying to get some scrub (a little to dig to the bottom of the lather when introducing water) all I got was a gaping hole in the brush. The bristles are simply too stiff and too sparse, they don't bend at all so it splays into a cone and I'm rubbing the shafts of the bristles, rather ineffectively, on my face. The Chubby, the Duke, for example, with a little pressure, leave the tips on my face just with more down force. No hole opens up, no using the sides of the shaft.
 
Sxot said:
Well actually it was after going for a bit of scrub that I found the failings of this brush. Trying to get some scrub (a little to dig to the bottom of the lather when introducing water) all I got was a gaping hole in the brush. The bristles are simply too stiff and too sparse, they don't bend at all so it splays into a cone and I'm rubbing the shafts of the bristles, rather ineffectively, on my face. The Chubby, the Duke, for example, with a little pressure, leave the tips on my face just with more down force. No hole opens up, no using the sides of the shaft.
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The way I use my boars is not to press down too much. This might be required from badgers to get a little scrub but with boars, I press very lightly and still get the desired scrub.

If you press down too much, you will get the boar donut you refer to.
 
:) Boar, Badger, Horse, Synthetic? You guys do realise they are all very different animals ? Right? Pun intended.

Badger: Very fine lather that can be made very wet if you want but the brush can suck up masses of lather and hide it after the first pass. Learning the water to soap ratio can be a challenge. The lather can be beaten too fine such that it can loose certain cushioning properties with too much water in the mix. Glide will certainly be present. Fine hair badger brushes naturally create very fine air bubbles in the lather but that can reduce the strength of the lather on your skin.

Boar: A very fine lather but not as fine as Badger as the bristles are thicker. A boar benefits from a 5 minute soak of the first 2cm of the bristles then shaken out and loaded. The lather produced with a boar will be different, it is pure hair mechanics. The lather can reach a similar water content but will be more yoghurt like at the shave ready stage. A boar will need to be broken in but will be the equal of a badger for comfort and backbone after the break in has happened. Don't compare them though they are different, they work differently and are not the same, as such the lather is not the same.

Horse: I have a couple of horse brushes and they behave differently to both the badger and the boar. Mine load wonderfully dry with a bloomed puck even though they are relatively floppy. They are quite the lather hog and can suffer from not enough lather in the brush for more that 2 passes. They are very well suited to scuttle lathering though or the "old fashioned" refreshing the brush after the first pass. The hair behaves somewhere between a badger and a boar and the lather type is somewhere in the middle.

Synthetic: Very popular for a number of reasons. Anyone can make reasonable lather with one. They are exceptional good with creams but can produce a wonderful lather with great visual appearance and with the shave ability of plaster of Paris. They demand exceptionally good understanding of your particular soap and its water needs as the brush lacks any real water retention.

Summary: You cannot say one brush is better than another. You can say I personally prefer for my needs x,y or z. There is a major difference. The lather is different, your requirements fora particular face feel is different to the next person. I have a particular horse hair that spikes me, it makes excellent lather but feels [to me] inadequate. Someone else may love it. I have a silver tip badger that makes great lather but feels a bit like a cotton ball on my face. I have floppy boars and stiff boars and boars in between. As long as the brush, no matter the bristle, doesn't scratch/scritch me it is a good brush.

Having said all that I know if I was presented with 4 handfuls of lather from 4 different brushes I would be fairly certain I could not say accurately which is which.
 
bald as said:
Synthetic: Very popular for a number of reasons. Anyone can make reasonable lather with one. They are exceptional good with creams but can produce a wonderful lather with great visual appearance and with the shave ability of plaster of Paris. They demand exceptionally good understanding of your particular soap and its water needs as the brush lacks any real water retention.
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I can't agree with this. I'd had years of using badgers and boars, and with even just a bit of experience, the differences between the two are negligible. Same with synths, I picked one up and got great results from the beginning. They demand nothing; there's no learning curve, no adjustment for one soap over another, no allowing for the finicky variables of different products. They just work, quick and simple with whatever you put on them. I've got 4, and barring the difference in feel, they all do the same thing.

If you find otherwise, I've got to say it's the Indian, not the arrow. Synths are the easiest brushes to use, and probably to learn on too. Some might prefer more feeling on the face or more scrub, but as to what they deliver, it's bloody easy to to get it.
 
bald as said:
I bow to your experience but stand by what I said.
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No gamesmanship intended. My point was, 'experience' isn't a big factor. Anyone who's had just a bit of experience with different brushes should make the very small adjustments between them without having to worry/think too too much about it. If you're getting plaster of paris lather with a synth, it's fixed with more water. Which is pretty much the same fix for the same problem with badger and boar
 
I can fully understand what your saying but don't miss what I'm also saying in the whole post. Many people approach all brushes as if they are the same and they are not. The whole mine is better than yours is pointless when they are different items. And @Drubbing, I have to apologise as I didn't intend to give the impression I saw your post as gamesmanship.

Steve
 
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