Coticules

[stillshunter]

Compared to Steve's Peoples' Hone of Infinite Grit, it is quite a bit softer and removes metal quite a bit quicker. Steve's hone gives an incredibly sharp edge though.

What is this "Steve's Peoples' Hone of Infinite Grit" of which you speak. Sounds like a @bald as special

 

[bald as]

What is this "Steve's Peoples' Hone of Infinite Grit" of which you speak.

A supercharged C-Nat with matching slurry stone thanks to ebay directions from @Mark. The slurry stone certainly makes it a quicker cutter followed by slurry off my 12k Shapton [which is all it is good for] did I mention I think it is a crap stone. I use the Shapton slurry on the C-Nat and it gets very smooth. On its own it clogs up with swarth very quickly. Used to provide a slurry on the Chinese stone it is excellent. Quite an expensive slurry stone but it certainly works. Same principle works with my 3/8/10k stones to produce a slurry on the C-Nat. Work them and thin them down with water then move to the next slurry after washing the stone. It is so hard, the C-Nat, it takes a massive effort to get slurry using a genuine piece of the C-Nat so the synthetic slurry breaks down quite quickly and simply polishes the C-Nat surface. It is a bit of a hybrid approach but works amazingly well. I did enjoy the edges I got from @khun_diddy's J-Nat but all things considered as I gain more experience I'm happy with the C-Nat.

 

[Pjotr]

A supercharged C-Nat with matching slurry stone thanks to ebay directions from @Mark. The slurry stone certainly makes it a quicker cutter followed by slurry off my 12k Shapton [which is all it is good for] did I mention I think it is a crap stone. I use the Shapton slurry on the C-Nat and it gets very smooth. On its own it clogs up with swarth very quickly. Used to provide a slurry on the Chinese stone it is excellent. Quite an expensive slurry stone but it certainly works. Same principle works with my 3/8/10k stones to produce a slurry on the C-Nat. Work them and thin them down with water then move to the next slurry after washing the stone. It is so hard, the C-Nat, it takes a massive effort to get slurry using a genuine piece of the C-Nat so the synthetic slurry breaks down quite quickly and simply polishes the C-Nat surface. It is a bit of a hybrid approach but works amazingly well. I did enjoy the edges I got from @khun_diddy's J-Nat but all things considered as I gain more experience I'm happy with the C-Nat.

Did you use one of these metal thingoes?

 

[Mark]

Just going back on topic. Let me start by saying forget the different layers, what others think of them etc.. Since this thread is about Coticules then that's what I'll talk about. The results others get will differ from the results you get and vice versa.

Facts:

-You can get a fantastic La Verte, and you can also get a not so great La Verte. Let's not forget that they are a natural form of matter.

-Coticule slurry does not break down and become finer, this is what makes them tricky due to slurry dulling (will discuss slurry dulling in a different thread). The refinement is reluctant on your progression within the one, what I mean by that is, the quality of your strokes, your stroke counts, your pressure, how well you are able to determine feedback, how well you dilute etc..

- With good practice, time and patience you can get a good edge from a coticule, it's not going to be anywhere near as sharp as synthetics, in fact, the keenness is similar to what you'd get from a naniwa 8k but the smoothness, versatility and speed is what they are known for.

How do you use a coti? this will take me a while so I'll include some useful videos and discuss the methods if any of you end up with one.

Let's put all this aside and go back a step. This was said by a member of a honing forum " Synthetics are science and Naturals are romance". This is true in the hands of a new honer. Naturals will behave differently with different steels and give you different results. Synthetics will be consistent and behave the same way with every razor.

If you're new to the honing game, hold your horses, get the basics right such as bevel setting, good strokes and know the exact purpose of every progression used in your kit before jumping on natural stones, that's just my take, your choice of course. If you have someone to guide you through your stone, preferably someone who has already tested it would be a big bonus.

If you're not new to honing then you probably don't need to read half of this. Instead you'll be busy trying and buying different stones when you can, there's no way of telling what you are going to get when you buy a natural stone until you try it, you only have an idea. Don't let this put you off naturals but my best advice it to get them from a vendor who has lots of experience with what they're selling and have tested and analysed each individual one with a razor. Or to simply buy one from a person that uses them for the same purpose as yourself.

Here are some videos that I found to be the most informative when it comes to coticules. Credit goes to Gary Haywood, the best coticule honer I know for passing his knowledge to me about using coticules who also sold me my first coti. Hope this helps. Cheers.

Gary Haywood using a Coticule

Dr Matt (3 parts, here is part 1)

 

[bald as]

As always @Mark excellent information.

 

[Pjotr]

Did you use one of these metal thingoes?

Now is somebody going to tell me what this lump of metal is for? I'm genuinely interested. Been sharpening things for god knows how many years and am tripping over the stones I've got hanging around. I can also produce a list as long as your arm of the tools I have that need (or needed) regular sharpening when in use (I was a professional old fashioned wood worker in a previous life) and yes, during the rare occasion I had to do some wood carving I even used a strop. Although I reserve the right to gently pull the legs of you straight shaving junkies I'd still like to know how far this goes and the lump of metal intrigues me.

 

[Korbz]

Are you taking about the la dressante?

 

[khun_diddy]

- With good practice, time and patience you can get a good edge from a coticule, it's not going to be anywhere near as sharp as synthetics, in fact, the keenness is similar to what you'd get from a naniwa 8k but the smoothness, versatility and speed is what they are known for.

Sounds right up my alley.

Superb info @Mark!

 

[stillshunter]

Just going back on topic. Let me start by saying forget the different layers, what others think of them etc.. Since this thread is about Coticules then that's what I'll talk about. The results others get will differ from the results you get and vice versa.

Facts:

-You can get a fantastic La Verte, and you can also get a not so great La Verte. Let's not forget that they are a natural form of matter.

-Coticule slurry does not break down and become finer, this is what makes them tricky due to slurry dulling (will discuss slurry dulling in a different thread). The refinement is reluctant on your progression within the one, what I mean by that is, the quality of your strokes, your stroke counts, your pressure, how well you are able to determine feedback, how well you dilute etc..

- With good practice, time and patience you can get a good edge from a coticule, it's not going to be anywhere near as sharp as synthetics, in fact, the keenness is similar to what you'd get from a naniwa 8k but the smoothness, versatility and speed is what they are known for.

How do you use a coti? this will take me a while so I'll include some useful videos and discuss the methods if any of you end up with one.

Let's put all this aside and go back a step. This was said by a member of a honing forum " Synthetics are science and Naturals are romance". This is true in the hands of a new honer. Naturals will behave differently with different steels and give you different results. Synthetics will be consistent and behave the same way with every razor.

If you're new to the honing game, hold your horses, get the basics right such as bevel setting, good strokes and know the exact purpose of every progression used in your kit before jumping on natural stones, that's just my take, your choice of course. If you have someone to guide you through your stone, preferably someone who has already tested it would be a big bonus.

If you're not new to honing then you probably don't need to read half of this. Instead you'll be busy trying and buying different stones when you can, there's no way of telling what you are going to get when you buy a natural stone until you try it, you only have an idea. Don't let this put you off naturals but my best advice it to get them from a vendor who has lots of experience with what they're selling and have tested and analysed each individual one with a razor. Or to simply buy one from a person that uses them for the same purpose as yourself.

Here are some videos that I found to be the most informative when it comes to coticules. Credit goes to Gary Haywood, the best coticule honer I know for passing his knowledge to me about using coticules who also sold me my first coti. Hope this helps. Cheers.

Gary Haywood using a Coticule

Dr Matt (3 parts, here is part 1)

 

[Pjotr]

Are you taking about the la dressante?

Shit, it's a stone! Side on! I thought the darker side was shade. And the scratches looked just like metal to me. It must be my colour blindness kicking in.

 

[bald as]

Well that helps clear up a mystery I wasn't going to get involved in.

looked just like metal to me.

Couldn't figure it out but now I think I understand,

 

[stillshunter]

Shit, it's a stone! Side on! I thought the darker side was shade. And the scratches looked just like metal to me. It must be my colour blindness kicking in.

I still can't see what you're seeing mate. No matter you are with us now.

Meanwhile, keen to hear how your first straight hone goes. Are you going the coticule or jnats or synthetics first up?

 

[Pjotr]

I still can't see what you're seeing mate. No matter you are with us now.

Meanwhile, keen to hear how your first straight hone goes. Are you going the coticule or jnats or synthetics first up?

No wasn't thinking of going straight I'm afraid, just interested. I've had the experience of seeing things weirdly before. Not sure if it's a left handed brain combined with a touch of colour blindness or whatever. For years I saw the batman sign as a screaming kid with a few front teeth. Even now I have to really try and see it differently.

 

[stillshunter]

No wasn't thinking of going straight I'm afraid, just interested. I've had the experience of seeing things weirdly before. Not sure if it's a left handed brain combined with a touch of colour blindness or whatever. For years I saw the batman sign as a screaming kid with a few front teeth. Even now I have to really try and see it differently.

 

[stillshunter]

I can see what you mean!

Will never be able to look at this the same again ...

oh jeez man, snap out of it.....it starts with this and ends with....well it ends very, very badly!

 

[bald as]

I didn't sleep well last night - all I saw was a kid screaming. Just cannot find Batman anywhere now.

 

[stillshunter]

Mods, Mods....

C
O
T
I
C
U
L
E
S

...that's what this thread be about.

Get back to it, or get off it!

 

[bald as]

I'm sure Batman or that screaming kid uses a Coticule.

 

[bald as]

It is 12:10AM and I cannot find Batman's Coticule anywhere. There is a glow in the sky though and a screaming kid. I think it is going to be a loooooooong night. A dark night even.

 

[Pjotr]

Mods, Mods....

C
O
T
I
C
U
L
E
S

...that's what this thread be about.

Get back to it, or get off it!

I agree but if a coticule looks like a lump of metal we have to sort the problem out. Having said that, this would have to be the best thread derailment I've ever accomplished.