Recommended machine for home

Lifes a Peach said:
Grinder or expresso machine?
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Not sure, just know there was a whole heap of them to be 'serviced' otherwise written off and a new one sent out as they're not cost effective to repair.
 
borked said:
Not sure, just know there was a whole heap of them to be 'serviced' otherwise written off and a new one sent out as they're not cost effective to repair.
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That would be the espresso machines then. The grinder comes highly recommended by the wannabe snobs.
 
Lifes a Peach said:
That would be the espresso machines then. The grinder comes highly recommended by the wannabe snobs.
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Sounds about right. The Smart grinder is well regarded - zip experience with it myself, though have to say the blue LEDs and LCD screen are a major WTF turn off and IMHO just another thing that can go wrong vs a simple dial (for the LCD).

For entry level espresso machines from 'appliance' brands, Sunbeam is regarded a tad better than Breville. As stated the SB EM6910 has a huge following and very easy to get parts etc - they're regarded as the 'buy less than this and you're wasting your money' espresso machine. Apparently the EM7000 took everything SB learnt in the 6910 and improved it - but you'll pay plenty more for it.

Breville have a few good machines in the ~$1k ballpark but thats getting into the ground of prosumer machines and IMHO they're very questionable mid-long term value.

One of the very good things about buying 2nd hand prosumer branded stuff is they tend to hold their value VERY WELL.....e.g my Silvia V3 (which I bought 2nd hand) is almost priced as a commodity at $500. Whereas a pod/appliance machine is lucky to attract 10-20% of it's original price when resold. Long term thats not really an issue BUT if you want to try and resell if you don't like it's something to bear in mind. Also all the accessories with espresso machines will add up....so if you're going down that path you need to have that factored in up front. Thats why the decent grinder + quality moka pot/stovetop strikes me as a good starting point for you.

If in a few months you decide you want to try the espresso path you've only spend $40 on the mokapot which is now your backup/travel coffee solution. And other than a new seal every few years they're basically bullet proof.

Also give some thought to a good quality hand grinder rather than an entry level powered one. You're not drinking a lot of volume of coffee and as you're into wetshaving you obviously appreciate the process rather than just the results - so anything from the Kyocera/Hario/Porlex to the Lido 2/3 would be a good option for you. Again bulletproof and will allow you to grind on par with up to a $400-500 grinder if you can handle the elbow grease. Have the Kyocera myself.
 
I have the smart grinder, and for the price (I got it at 50% off at goodguys) there is nothing better.
You can't get quite as much control over the grind setting as you would with a grinder with micro adjustments, but in my opinion you can get close enough to make a really good coffee most of the time.
 
eggbert said:
I have the smart grinder, and for the price (I got it at 50% off at goodguys) there is nothing better.
You can't get quite as much control over the grind setting as you would with a grinder with micro adjustments, but in my opinion you can get close enough to make a really good coffee most of the time.
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I'm guessing that you have the older model (800 series). The 800 has 25 grind settings and 820 has 60. The 820 burrs can be adjusted for the particular grind. I don't think its a big deal.
 
JayDee said:
From experience, you are focusing on the wrong part of the equation. It's not the hammer (the machine) that makes good coffee, it's the nail (the beans). I used to have a $300 machine that made great coffee, my mother gave me her $2000 machine when she moved to a smaller place and didn't have the bench space for it and guess what, my coffee tastes exactly the same.
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I would otherwise agree with this, apart from the fact that a better ('prosumer' if you like) machine will give you adjustments not available on the cheaper machines, or more instrumentation to make your shots more consistent. You first need to learn how to pull consistent shots rather than jumping around all over the place. It's the same as shaving - stick to the razor, blade and soap/cream, and just try to hone the technique first.

Some of the higher machines will give temp adjustment or pressure gauges. Not that these in themselves will give you an immediate perfect result but certainly gives some control and feedback to help you dial in grind & tamping.

Once you have that sorted out and you can get consistent shots and pucks out, start looking towards the beans. Then you adjust your machines (both the grinder and the machine itself) to match the bean characteristics.
 
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Nick the Knife said:
............Lets agree that some pod machines can make reasonable espresso coffee which is certainly better than MANY poor efforts rolled out on other machines etc. Their big advantage is in the convenience area, the big weaknesses are you're locked into their system with a high per unit price but if that grade of coffee cuts the mustard for you they're a no brainer choice. @Pjotr and I can agree that a good pod machine will do better than an average auto ..........
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Pheewww....I'm glad we can agree. You're the third coffee nazi in this thread who albeit somewhat begrudgingly admits that Nespresso makes a good coffee. We' also have to agree, and there's no barista worth his/her salt that would disagree, that pushing water at 80 degrees, or whatever the exact temperature is, through a freshly ground bean makes the coffee we all want. On that basis a plunger can work if you get the temperature right. On the other hand a stove top, let's face it, just makes shitty bitter tasting coffee. How can it not, as it's pushing water through that is in excess of boiling point temperature. It might make decent coffee if you take it up to Mount Everest where the boiling point of water is 80 odd degrees. I'm always amazed that people actually mention the stove top as a viable machine for making coffee.

It took me a long time to forsake the presence of beans and that fantastic smell you get when grinding them and to succumb to the convenience offered by a Nespresso. We've had every single coffee making device you can think of (other than going the whole hog) and for what you get, Nespresso knocks spots off all of them.

Nick the Knife said:
.......... but after that we'll have to agree to disagree on most things. :)...........
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There's nothing to disagree about. If @alfredus wants to make coffee that's as good as or better than the coffee he gets at his carefully selected haunts he'll have to spend at least twice his budget, take on maintenance such as replacing seals, descaling, replacing grinder burrs etc and give up a sizeable portion of kitchen bench space, not only for the machinery but you can probably double that area for the constant spillage of spent and fresh grounds. In other words he'll have to take in on as a hobby. A great hobby admittedly but nonetheless.
 
Thread hijack alert.
Sorry @alfredus but no point in starting a new thread. I have my eyes on a Saeco Royal Digital machine that I could get fro under $300.00 - second hand obviously. Anyone have any experience with this model. In particular does the milk frothing wand work well as the one on my DeLonghi is crap.

Thanks guys.
 
Pjotr said:
There's nothing to disagree about.
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Ah Pjotr even when I say we disagree you argue back that we don't - go figure. Well rest assured there was plenty in your post that I see significantly differently. Specifically that Stovetops can make a good coffee - with all due respect and given your own admission that you've tried every different machine/method I respectfully suggest it might be user error, supported by the pattern of failure with other devices. If you know the stovetops limitations it will work well, just like a plunger - BUT they're frequently not used properly and as such are very easy to turn out nasty coffee on.

Pjotr said:
If @alfredus wants to make coffee that's as good as or better than the coffee he gets at his carefully selected haunts he'll have to spend at least twice his budget, take on maintenance such as replacing seals, descaling, replacing grinder burrs etc and give up a sizeable portion of kitchen bench space, not only for the machinery but you can probably double that area for the constant spillage of spent and fresh grounds. In other words he'll have to take in on as a hobby. A great hobby admittedly but nonetheless.
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Again with all due respect this is just simply not true - there's been multiple options given that are even within the $500 budget that would serve him well. Sweeping generalisations that seek to override the advise of multiple other forum members that have considerable experience in this area (and I'm NOT talking about myself) are IMHO a tad simplistic (and what I mean by this is there's a tiny bit of truth to SOME of the things you say but the majority of them are incorrect) - especially when as you say yourself you've struck out multiple times in this area yourself ... anyway all the info is there @alfredus can decide what suits him best.

@gthomas04 , Saeco do tend to make some of the better automatic machines but my comments regarding them stand. If you like I can give you the link to a nearby seller who only wants $200 total for a under 2yr old Sunbeam EM6910 and EM0480 grinder. Very good buying and would be a stepup from your De Longhi.

Autos will give you a mediocre cup and they are complicated bits of gear made for offices and NEED PROFESSIONAL servicing regularly - and it is very expensive.

You'd be very happy with the SB - it's being sold by a COffee Snob member and has everything you need done to it. Anyway if you're keen let me know and I'll get the deets. :)
 
Nonick said:
How do you make your Turkish coffee alfredus? I got some one time and it's so fine it was like mud in the bottom of the cup
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I tend to do them "Lebanese" style - so I start with boiling water from a kettle...

Very fine ground coffee in stainless steel pot, add boiling water and just bring back to the boil once - perfect result for me.

OK, so let's focus on the grinder for a second: I was told today, that some machines can take way finer grinds than others. Is there any truth to that and if yes, what grinder should I get, that would set me up for all possibilities in the future?

Again I don't need to grind huge amounts at any time.
 
Nick the Knife said:
Ah Pjotr even when I say we disagree you argue back that we don't - go figure. Well rest assured there was plenty in your post that I see significantly differently. Specifically that Stovetops can make a good coffee - with all due respect and given your own admission that you've tried every different machine/method I respectfully suggest it might be user error, supported by the pattern of failure with other devices. If you know the stovetops limitations it will work well, just like a plunger - BUT they're frequently not used properly and as such are very easy to turn out nasty coffee on.


Again with all due respect this is just simply not true - there's been multiple options given that are even within the $500 budget that would serve him well. Sweeping generalisations that seek to override the advise of multiple other forum members that have considerable experience in this area (and I'm NOT talking about myself) are IMHO a tad simplistic (and what I mean by this is there's a tiny bit of truth to SOME of the things you say but the majority of them are incorrect) - especially when as you say yourself you've struck out multiple times in this area yourself ... anyway all the info is there @alfredus can decide what suits him best.

@gthomas04 , Saeco do tend to make some of the better automatic machines but my comments regarding them stand. If you like I can give you the link to a nearby seller who only wants $200 total for a under 2yr old Sunbeam EM6910 and EM0480 grinder. Very good buying and would be a stepup from your De Longhi.

Autos will give you a mediocre cup and they are complicated bits of gear made for offices and NEED PROFESSIONAL servicing regularly - and it is very expensive.

You'd be very happy with the SB - it's being sold by a COffee Snob member and has everything you need done to it. Anyway if you're keen let me know and I'll get the deets. :)
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Agree. Autos give mediocre at the very best. Go the manual, A couple of shots probably won't pass muster your first few shots but when you learn your setup's idiosyncrasies and you learn how to "dial-in" the grinder you will be pouring shots better than 75% of the button pushers in shops. Coffee shop barista work in a controlled humidity, air-conditioned environment most times and their knowledge of environmental factors limits their overall knowledge and skills. GO THE MANUAL. You will grow in your knowledge, your skill around various machines enabling you to teach your friends and discern good from average baristas.

You can pour a reasonable shot from the cheapest of manual machines provided you follow the basic rules. The same cannot be said for auto machines.
 
alfredus said:
I tend to do them "Lebanese" style - so I start with boiling water from a kettle...

Very fine ground coffee in stainless steel pot, add boiling water and just bring back to the boil once - perfect result for me.

OK, so let's focus on the grinder for a second: I was told today, that some machines can take way finer grinds than others. Is there any truth to that and if yes, what grinder should I get, that would set me up for all possibilities in the future?

Again I don't need to grind huge amounts at any time.
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If you're drinking that and finding it perfect then thats why I feel a stovetop is a logical low risk option to try but see how you go with that.

RE: Grinder - well thats a very general comment but a general answer would be yes. Dose (amount of coffee), grind size, tamp weight & the freshness of the coffee as well as other factors all interplay with each other each time you pull a shot. BUT any decent grinder will be able to give you the right grind for anything from plunger to Turkish. As others said right from the get go it's always good to buy the best grinder you can afford as it will maximise the results you get from whatever method you utilise. Several very good options have been given.

Yes, I know you're not grinding much volume thats why i recommended you don't rule out a hand grinder like the Lido 2 - which is ~$220 but a very high quality bit of kit and well worth the price....apparently it's super fast as well as it's got huge steel conical burrs. My Kyocera takes quite a while to grind for espresso but gives far fluffier and sexier grinds than my ~$550 Compak K3 touch. So they're well worth considering IF you can deal with them.
 
Pjotr said:
On the other hand a stove top, let's face it, just makes shitty bitter tasting coffee. How can it not, as it's pushing water through that is in excess of boiling point temperature. It might make decent coffee if you take it up to Mount Everest where the boiling point of water is 80 odd degrees. I'm always amazed that people actually mention the stove top as a viable machine for making coffee.
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Mamma mia, @Pjotr Were you asleep in science class when your teacher explained the intricacies of a Moka (stove) Pot?

Water boils in first chamber causing pressure - > steam rise up the first spout -> steam condenses and cools -> liquid reforms up the next funnel at slightly lower than 96 degrees, which is the optimum temp for coffee. Also you never use a high flame.
 
Pjotr said:
On the other hand a stove top, let's face it, just makes shitty bitter tasting coffee. How can it not, as it's pushing water through that is in excess of boiling point temperature.
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Like every method for making coffee there is technique involved in making decent coffee out of a moka pot.
I put very hot (but not boilding) water into the bottom chamber, place the coffee and top chamber on, then gently raise the heat until you get the first drips of coffee coming through. Once it is starting to come through try to maintain that temperature.
You don't want the moka pot to be spluttering away or you will get nasty, bitter coffee because as you say it has gone way over the temp required to make a nice coffee.
 
What NtK said.

Coffee has been a hobby of mine well before wetshaving was. For the price, you can't go wrong with the breville smart grinder.

I'm assuming you drink your coffee with milk? If not, just get yourself an aeropress - best $50 you'll ever spend. If you want espresso, go with many of the recommendations on here, but expect a reasonably steep learning curve. Don't go with a cheap espresso machine though - you'd be better off with a pod machine. But the sunbeam 6910 can be had for pretty cheap second hand on ebay, and that is a fine machine so long as it doesn't break (I had one for years). Otherwise the newer version is also decent.

I'd steer away from a single boiler machine like the Rancilio Silvia. Just personal preference, but I hate having to heat up and cool down the water when swapping from espresso to milk. Either get a twin thermoblock like the sunbeam, or get a heat exchange or twin boiler (but you won't get either of these for your budget).

But like everyone else said already, fresh beans is key. Find a supplier that you can buy from regularly, and who stamps the roast date on the bag so you can monitor the age of the beans.
 
OK, after reading everything here and a bit at CS I think the Breville Smart 820 is a good choice - if I get for 199$ - sold out at every Myer store in Australia apparently :(

As for the machine, I will stick to the more traditional methods for now and maybe add an Aeropress to the collection. The "real" machine might come later, but for the near future I just don't have the energy for a steep learning curve...

For all the Aeropress users: I noticed they have paper filers and 3 different types of metal filter - which ones do you prefer (and why)? Obviously would love to get by without the paper waste!
 
You get about 300 paper filters with the aeropress, and if you rinse them you can reuse them 8-10 times. That's a lot of coffee to go through before worrying about that issue
 
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